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#69424 - 06/07/08 07:45 PM 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
mercman1 Offline
mopar

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Stuart FL
I have real T/A that I restored with a 416 W-2 roller motor. With the 6 pack and exhaust manifolds on pump gas this made 470 horses and 490 ftlbs of torque.
I purchaed @ the Nats from the well known owner of a conversion company a complete kit. Trans, clutch, had them modify my scattershield and also the hydraulic throw out brg set up. just shy of $4k.
The salesman/owner of this company assured me that this was a complete bolt in... I expressed my concern that I would not even dimple the floor pans much less cut them or modify in any way as one day I will put back the complete 100% matching engine and trans.
I had several problems from the wrong clutch they sent me, to a throw out brg that expoded at 300 miles of use and hurt the trans so bad I had to ship the trans back at my cost for repairs and pay the difference for the "new updated" throw out bearing. Well I now have 1000 miles on this junk and the trans interferes with the trans tunnel transfering a severe vibration to the body as you row through the gears.
I have repeatedly complained to them about how poor this thing shifts... finally tech support (which as been great) got one of the engineers on the phone and he ask "where are you shifting"? I said 7-7500 RPM. His answer... GET THIS... They are not designed to shift over 6000 RPM, as a matter of fact the new Mustangs have the rev limiterset @ 5900 RPM.
They suggested I send the trans to Pro Motion a company that specializes in modified Tremecs on my $ of course.
I'm done with the agravation!!!The original 833 is on it's way in as we speak.
The company nor all the magazines that have tested these things said nothing about these issues.
This car has been a 6 year resto-mod. I drive my cars and I race them. The 5 speed made great sense for the best of both worlds. I'm so disappointed and out $4K
Just thought others would like to know.


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#69425 - 06/07/08 08:26 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
pro451bee Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 726
Loc: WA
I dont think many manual transmisions will work well without mods at that performance level.

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#69426 - 06/07/08 10:06 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 12852
Loc: Mass
Not to start a "war"......there are more than several companies out there selling Tremec swaps, who was your "vendor" of choice?.........and shifting at 7-7500 rpm was your intention, you should have made that clear to the "supplier"?.....usally when I order or request a part/assy I usally spell out EXACTLY what I need and expect the part to do,.....that way I don't have any disapointments







440/6 Keisler 5spd, dana 60 4:10


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#69427 - 06/07/08 11:09 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
jsbrown Offline
super street

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 629
Loc: Colorado
Sorry to hear about your experience, but misery loves company if nothing else. I've been messing with my setup off and on for 4yrs 9mos/1874 mi now... mostly due to the hyd clutch, and I've experienced "the wall" shifting down at 6k at the track. Much to the disappointment of a couple other project cars, I've replaced doing actual restorations with occasionally trying to make this stuff work the way I expect.

Jeff

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#69428 - 06/07/08 11:59 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: jsbrown]
NTOLERANCE Offline
master

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 3806
Loc: Madison Wi
Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?

I know some people swear by these transmissions and the other half that have them hate them,(or hate the fitment rather) but I dont beleive that these transmissions are designed for anything but street cruising......

If 6000 rpm was the LIMIT, wouldnt they post that in their advertising? ( yeah there is a bit of sarcasm there)

Interesting though, I was thinking about putting a summit hyd clutch set up in my car, but after hearing your problems, I dunno if hyd is the way to go......

I feel for ya man, youve got more in your trans that Ive got in my car. Big chunk of change to loose.
_________________________
I was Mopar when Mopar wasnt cool and life was just a bet on a race between the lights.

I'm just fine with my ugly unwanted early B body....thanks anyway....

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#69429 - 06/08/08 12:44 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: mercman1]
calmopar Offline
Regular Guy

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 12254
Loc: East Bay, N. Cal.
With all the "upgrades" (design/component flaw fixes) and shipping back and forth, I'm up to $6,300+

The trans is getting fitted, the floor modified, then the trans will get installed. Unlike the OP, I don't mind hacking the floor of my ex-318 car. I understand why he wouldn't want to cut his. For me, though, driveline angle is more important than preserving a floor (which I replaced anyway).

It's been a long, expensive ride, and I'll know soon if it's going to do the trick or not.

The car itself is going to look great. The motor is a top-shelf M.E.W. rebuild of an original block.

I am hoping for the best!
_________________________
You get the same order of criminality from any State to which you give power to exercise it; and whatever power you give the State to do things for you carries with it the equivalent power to do things to you. Albert Jay Nock (1939)

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#69430 - 06/08/08 06:50 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NTOLERANCE]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 8944
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Quote:

Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?




I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.

Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.

I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.
_________________________
2013 Champion Nostalgia Mod Gas Winner '71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB Indy EZ1 heads Fastest Pass 9.81/6.14 1.32 60ft 135.97mph '70 Cuda Pro street 484 Hemi, Originally 440-6 4-speed N96 Now going 605 all aluminum Hemi, stay tuned

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#69431 - 06/08/08 08:01 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
RTSE4ME Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1372
Loc: MD
I have a 70 Challenger with the same kit that is kind of a resto mod like yours...but not as nice as yours.
Here are a couple suggestions that may or may not help. Since your car was an originally a 4 speed car why don't you try the mechanical linkage. I thought the hydraulic set up was for people who were converting to auto and didn't want to deal with installing the linkage.
Another thing you could try is get rid of the pistol grip and use a ball handle. I bought a used 7" hurst handle with a ball handle for $20 and it makes shifting a lot more natural for me compared to the pistol grip but I don't shift any where near 7500 rpms.

My trans also interferd with the tunnel...I think most e-bodies do on the right side. I just clearenced it a bit...

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#69432 - 06/08/08 08:29 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Dragula]
NTOLERANCE Offline
master

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 3806
Loc: Madison Wi
Quote:

Quote:

Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?




I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.

Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.

I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.




Umm......I just thought of something...

Shouldnt a transmissions service level be rated in TORQUE capabilities and not HP?

I'll stick with my 23 spline 833. If I want an overdrive, I'll take the stratus.
_________________________
I was Mopar when Mopar wasnt cool and life was just a bet on a race between the lights.

I'm just fine with my ugly unwanted early B body....thanks anyway....

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#69433 - 06/08/08 08:42 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NTOLERANCE]
moparmarks Offline


Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 9607
Loc: Western Colorado High Desert
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?




I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.

Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.

I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.




Umm......I just thought of something...

Shouldnt a transmissions service level be rated in TORQUE capabilities and not HP?

I'll stick with my 23 spline 833. If I want an overdrive, I'll take the stratus.




I think they are. The Tremec is 600LB and the TKO is rated at 850LB of torque. I've installed a couple of both in E bodies. All hit the tunnel without mods. Both shift hard but seemed to loosen up with miles. They are nice for the street but I'd take an 833 for racing.
They never said anything about RPM limitions. All of ours came from Keisler.
_________________________
71 RR A/G 4-sp Dana, 72 SSP 440, 72 Dart 440, 92 CTD, 97 DAKOTA, amoung others. Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/ moparmark@bresnan.net Carlisle P195-201 Nats P23-28

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#69434 - 06/08/08 09:18 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: RTSE4ME]
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 12852
Loc: Mass
Well, we don't exactly know what set up Mercman has, Keisler, Classic 5, Darkhorse, etc,.....I'll speak from my experience with Keisler, after installing many of their several versions of TKO 5's, and AOD4, the only failure was one hyd. master cyl. and one input shaft, the input shaft failure was due to a rather inexperienced "employee" who had "forgotten" to install the front BEARING! when installing a Hyd clutch set up,.......other than that NO failures since 2002 on any Keisler equipped vehicle, mine or customers, and they've been put behind everything up to several 600HP Hemis, I have a TKO Keisler in my Daytona, I have no problems shifting at 6000 rpm, or down shifting so hard as to lock up the rear end,......but then again I take the time to procure/ install a unit that I know will handle the job, rather than op out at cost and settle for an inferior/ lower performing unit,....the TKO in my Daytona is a $6000 dollar set up right from the start, all the gears have been replaced with chromalloy 4130 steel gears, as well as ugrades to the bearings/ shafts/ etc the entire tranny was built to my request, knowing it would see extreme street/ racing conditions,.....last thing that I want, as well as the next guy is to spend coin, only to regret it later because I didn't research the product.....I know sometimes we rely on the "wisdom" of the supplier, but if you don't question/ research for yourself, sometimes your at their mercy,.......I've been there in the past, and vowed never to be "there" again......I feel for you Mercman, it sounds like, from your post, you "relied" on "their"(?) advice for a unit, or perhaps the $4K was your limit?.......are you running a TKO 500?....if so I'd limit that tranny to a "warm" smblk,....325-375 HP..........trust me, I beat the snot out of my cars, with the intent of breaking something!


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#69435 - 06/08/08 09:27 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONA]
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 12852
Loc: Mass
1500+ HP combined.....all running Keisler TKO 600's, all driven HARD on the street or Track


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#69436 - 06/08/08 09:35 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONA]
Dragula Offline


Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 8944
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
For the amount of money it seems everyone has invested in these things, a Lenco ST1200 would have been money in the bank. Let alone how much an 833 would have saved you.
_________________________
2013 Champion Nostalgia Mod Gas Winner '71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB Indy EZ1 heads Fastest Pass 9.81/6.14 1.32 60ft 135.97mph '70 Cuda Pro street 484 Hemi, Originally 440-6 4-speed N96 Now going 605 all aluminum Hemi, stay tuned

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#69437 - 06/08/08 10:02 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: Dragula]
wildman340 Offline
master

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 3609
Loc: Southern Oklahoma
_________________________
1974 Dodge Dart Sport 340 4 Spd Endless Project 1999 Ram 1500 CC 5.2 5 speed

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#69438 - 06/08/08 10:58 AM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
mercman1 Offline
mopar

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Stuart FL
Let me clear up a few issues first...
I read every magazine test or post on the Tremec conversion/ installation for about two years BEFORE buying my set up. Usually the articles were about B-bodies. These I understand have no fitment problems. I was well aware that A bodies require trans tunnel mods. E-bodies were supposed to be like B bodies. I heard some rumors that some E- bodies "Could" have fit ment issues.
This unit is from Keisler... I sat down with the owner (Shafri???) to discuss the aplication. I brought up fitment reservations...He assured me it would fit with no mods. He at first recommended the entry level 450 ft lbs rated trans. I explained that the engine had already been dynoed with a 6 pack and manifolds at 490 ft lbs of torque and that some day Id throw on the Victor W2/ HP 950- carb intake and headers (worth probably another 50-60 hp???) He then recomended the next unit rated at 550 ft lbs. I already had a complete Centerforce dual friction clutch set up but he said his was better, so not wanting to piece parts and have them later point the finger to a clutch that was not theres I gave in and bought his clutch, shifter and had him modify my scatter sheild. The original intention was for my wife to drive this on occasion as I also have a low 11 second street 69 GTX so I ordered up the hydraulic throw out brg set up which now works excellent!
Now some have questioned the shifting vs RPM... this is a MUSCLE CAR!!!Yes it is fine on the street at 3500 RPM but we drive these to hear the tires squeal and the engine whine. I have the horsepower for this to run low 12s maybe with sticky tires go 11:90s. This thing is so poor at shifting it only went 14.19 @105 mph at the Southern Mopar nats in GA two weeks ago. That is stock Mustang teritory not Mopar Muscle times.
Mr Dayclona...If I'm told the price of admission is $4K that is one thing...But if the real price is $6K let me know that up front and I will respect you so much more! At 6K I will look at other options...Jerico or what else is out there.
Bottom line some of these magazine guys got free parts (Im sure you now how that works) for doing an article on these trans and arn't about to say ANYTHING negative.
Shame on these so called journalist for taking gifts with out disclosing the truth!


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#69439 - 06/08/08 12:24 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
blown340 Offline
master

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3212
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Maybe its something with the hydraulic clutch? I'm using the mechanical clutch linkage with my Keisler/tremec setup in my 340 challenger and have had no issues while shifting at 6500. I'm also making quite a bit more power thanks to 15psi of boost and its holding up quite well. I do have a custom hydraulic setup on my scamp that I converted from a A904 to a A833OD and it doesn't like to shift nearly as fast as the mechanical linkage does.

-Jon
_________________________
70 challenger convertible. 340/5 speed. blown, intercooled, efi, blah blah blah 71 valiant scamp 318/A833OD/AC/PS 00 dakota RC 4.7L 5 spd autoX'r. SRT10/T56 swap in process 73 W200 Power wagon, PTO winch, 4 spd

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#69440 - 06/08/08 12:32 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: blown340]
viperakron Offline
mopar

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 696
Loc: Ohio
I have a Viper with a Tremic. They are strong but you can't power shift them, The trans was made for my car. I have some mods and make 475 at the wheels. Never broke anything in the trans but you can't do anything but speed shift it and expect to get in all the gears consistantly.

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#69441 - 06/08/08 12:52 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: blown340]
daytonakid Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 263
Loc: oregon
I have a kiesler tremec setup in my superbird clone I purchased it in 2000. Within months I had the shiftrods fall apart. I had to remove top of trans. They had used drift pins that were to loose. Had to send trans back for warranty work. I bought complete kit including bell housing. Trans shifts like a big truck. Now I guess they have a updated shift tower but keisler has never sent me info so I could solve my problem. I have always had clutch problems. I installed their mccleod clutch first had very high peddle effort and the pressure plate finally failed. They then sold me a diaphram clutch and told remove me to remove the overcenter spring. I never did remove the over center spring because I know how hard they are to replace. I tried to tell them that is the wrong for a mopar but they assured me it would work. If you drive normal it's fine try to shift it under hard acceleration cluth pedal sticks to floor. I have so many other projects at work and at home I just gave up and I've just lived with this for years. But it doesn't work right. I remember when I started this project they tried to talk me into their hyd clutch. Come to find out the first ones were junk. Glad I didn't listen to them on that one. If they have poor engineering they should offer updates to us poor suckers stuck with their junk. I have a gear vendors in my duster that runs 10.30 has been there for 4 years not one problem. I only spent 2300 for it you tell me which is best. Bill


Edited by daytonakid (06/08/08 12:55 PM)

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#69442 - 06/08/08 04:34 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: daytonakid]
70440+6bbl Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4796
Loc: NY
I gave up on their junk after having TWO hydraulic TO bearings blow and ruin my $500.00 Mcleod clutches in my '70 RR 493 A-833 powered car The second time was on the starting line at Island Dragway, sucked big time!!! My buddy has not had much luck with the set-up in his '72 'Cuda 493 TKO set-up.
I have had decent luck with the TKO 600 trannies in most of the 5.0 Mustwangs I have built over the last couple of years. Not the easiest trans to powershift (unless sent to Pro-Motion in FL), although it is holding up just fine in my [Email]10.90@129[/Email] 5.0 single turbo car

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#69443 - 06/08/08 05:45 PM Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 12852
Loc: Mass
Quote:

magazine guys got free parts (Im sure you now how that works)





No, I don't know how that works?.......perhaps you could enlighten me? because if there's free parts, I wanna be first in line!


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