416 on the dyno
#2055252
04/15/16 11:28 PM
04/15/16 11:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,890 Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,890
Spahn Ranch
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OK, I'll get it out of the way - my 416 made 500 HP @ 6,000 rpm and 500 lb/ft of torque almost all the way between 4,000-5,000 rpm. I will be honest, I wanted it to make 525 hp but I'll take 500.2.
I was so wound up this morning, I was up at 5 AM. Despite any nervousness I had, everything went pretty well. There were no surprises or anything that was way out of whack. It fired right up on the first crank and the break in went fine.
The only issue that arose were some small oil leaks at the corners of the oil pan. Thankfully it was not the rear main or front seal, probably just needs more silicone in the corners but the pan will probably have to come off. He ran it with the PCV valve off which I thought might have helped with the leaks some but he said no. Other than that, all was well. Really, the whole thing was like a walk in the park.
The biggest job was re-installing the inner valve springs. Me and the dyno guy worked as a team and got the job done in under 30 minutes. I brought my own valve spring compressor and it helped a lot. He did set the lash tighter than me, at least by feel. Lash was loose for the break in so after the springs went back in it was tightened up to .016" intake and .018" exhaust.
We made about 8-9 pulls, the first few were pretty conservative and stayed under 6,000. It definitely wanted to go more so he took it up to 6,600. The numbers started to fall off around 6,300 so there was no point in revving it any higher.
Air was dry, barometer was 30.25, was about 60-65 degrees today. He told me what the vapor pressure was but I can't remember now.
There wasn't much in the way of tuning. I set the timing at home to 20 initial and 34 total. He backed it down to 32 for the first few pulls but ended up going back up to 35 total. The distributor has one of those FBO limiter plates which makes life easy.
Carb is an OOTB Proform 850. It came with 76 jets in front and 84 in the back. On some of the earlier pulls, the A/F ratio was between 12.1-12.7 when it was making power. He thought we could lean it a little bit so we stepped the jets down 2 sizes front and rear but the power stayed exactly the same. After the jet change, the A/F was like 12.9-13.1 so going back up on the jets would have been wasting fuel. I was just glad the carb was not upside down like on my last motor.
After we were done it occurred to me that this combo might benefit from a 'better' intake with a larger plenum and maybe a longer runner but my old school, gasket-matched Strip Dominator did pretty well.
Though he didn't show it, I think it surprised the dyno guy a little bit. When I dropped it off the yesterday he laughed when I said it would make 500 hp. After it was done he didn't have much to say and said it ran good. He claimed the dyno is stingy. Who knows. He was also flatulent and said BB Chebbies blew away Hemis. OK.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with it. It didn't blow up and it sounded absolutely nasty. I'm proud of myself for sticking it out through a bunch of hurdles and missteps. I lived out a long-time dream of mine which was to make an honest 500 hp with an iron-headed small block.
I brought my old digital camera to take a movie but it didn't record for some reason which I'm bummed about. Wish you all could have seen/heard the thing, it's bad a$$.
So obviously the next phase it to get the motor back into the car which means fixing the leaky pan, dealing with the headers etc. etc. It might be a few weeks before that happens but I will be driving the car this summer and taking it down the track as much as I can. That will likely only amount to a few times but I'll take what I can get, I haven't driven it for over a year.
Here's the combo;
factory 340 block, bored to 4.070, align honed BPE 4" crank Scat 6.125 rods w. Chevy journals King bearings, Diamond 21 cc dish pistons, 1.457" C.H., .927" pin CNC ported RHS/X heads by IMM w. 2.02 intake valves approximately 10.3:1 CR w. Fel Pro 1008 gaskets Not sure what brand spring but whatever Brian puts on these heads, maybe PAC? Spring pressure is 155lbs. at 1.800 I.H. and 350lbs. at 1.200 spring height IMM spec'd Comp solid FT 251/259 @ .050". with Hughes 1.6 rockers .585"/.593" net lift installed at 106. Pro-gear timing chain Smith Bros pushrods gasket-matched Holley Strip Dominator intake Proform 850 74/82, 4.5 PV vintage '80s MP tach drive distributor Taylor 8mm wires MSD 6 AL + Blaster E coil NGK #5 plugs, .045" TTi 1 5/8-1 3/4 W2 step headers Mech. flow Kooler water pump Clay Smith mech. fuel pump (not used on the dyno)
That's it, a simple iron headed small block. Aiming for 11.0.
After two days of handling an engine, I'm wiped out. Just finished my beer and am about ready for bed.
Just wanted to give a quick thanks to Brian @ IMM for the heads and cam, Glenn @ B+B Machine in Oceanside, NY for the great machine work and Merkel Racing Engines in Hauppague, NY for the dyno day.
Thanks for reading.
'71 Duster '17 Ram 1500
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055265
04/15/16 11:42 PM
04/15/16 11:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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There are few things in life more bothersome than a Chevy loving, flatulent dyno operator. Them dyno rooms just ain't big enough for all that.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055360
04/16/16 02:27 AM
04/16/16 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027
Tulsa OK
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Sounds fun, I look forward to hearing what it does on the track.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055456
04/16/16 12:01 PM
04/16/16 12:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,890 Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,890
Spahn Ranch
|
Thanks guys! Save for the dyno guys gas and these nervous-tick Sleestak noises he was making all day, it was pretty cool. I gave him a good tip at the end of the day so I'm sure he was appreciative.
I think the thing that was most beneficial for me was the A/F readings. I have an A/F meter in my car and can get fixated on it sometimes so it's good to know where the motor likes to be. The info from the dyno provides a good baseline/starting point for 'tuning'. I can be pretty ham fisted with a carburetor so this will help keep me grounded.
I talked with the operator about jetting after we did the change and he said messing with the jets and air bleeds at the track can get you way out of whack. He might have been coming from a hard-core bracket racer perspective though which does not relate to my situation completely. I tend to agree for the most part but, I don't have anything in the way of electronics in my car like a two step etc. so timing changes and jets are about all I can play with easily. My goal is not to mess with anything and hopefully I won't have to for a while.
Was also thinking about the oil leaks from the pan. I changed out the filter on the dyno and lost some oil but not a huge amount. I put the new one on and put a little more than 3/4 of a quart back in so there may have been slightly too much oil in the pan. The pan calls for 5 plus the filter so perhaps it was too full. Doubtful, but maybe. Going to see if I can pressure test with soapy water to pinpoint the leaks.
Thanks again for the well wishes.
'71 Duster '17 Ram 1500
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055515
04/16/16 01:18 PM
04/16/16 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thanks guys! Save for the dyno guys gas and these nervous-tick Sleestak noises he was making all day, it was pretty cool. I gave him a good tip at the end of the day so I'm sure he was appreciative.
I think the thing that was most beneficial for me was the A/F readings. I have an A/F meter in my car and can get fixated on it sometimes so it's good to know where the motor likes to be. The info from the dyno provides a good baseline/starting point for 'tuning'. I can be pretty ham fisted with a carburetor so this will help keep me grounded.
I talked with the operator about jetting after we did the change and he said messing with the jets and air bleeds at the track can get you way out of whack. He might have been coming from a hard-core bracket racer perspective though which does not relate to my situation completely. I tend to agree for the most part but, I don't have anything in the way of electronics in my car like a two step etc. so timing changes and jets are about all I can play with easily. My goal is not to mess with anything and hopefully I won't have to for a while.
Was also thinking about the oil leaks from the pan. I changed out the filter on the dyno and lost some oil but not a huge amount. I put the new one on and put a little more than 3/4 of a quart back in so there may have been slightly too much oil in the pan. The pan calls for 5 plus the filter so perhaps it was too full. Doubtful, but maybe. Going to see if I can pressure test with soapy water to pinpoint the leaks.
Thanks again for the well wishes. Not in agreement on the bleed/jet change at track stuff but how do you learn where the threshold limits are if you don`t cross em...........I can walk ya through stuff if u`d like........760-900-3895............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055562
04/16/16 03:03 PM
04/16/16 03:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,497 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,497
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Sounds like a nice uneventful day on the dyno.
Looking at your combo, I would have expected a little more out if it too. Both the intake and headers look a little small to me, but I also don't think either of those things would change the power all that much.
I'll be looking forward to hearing some track reports.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055705
04/16/16 07:31 PM
04/16/16 07:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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If you got tight quench the compression is very mild for that cam, bet it would be OK on 87. I ran a stock cam 392 stroked 318 at 10.2 and it was fine on 87 even at seal level in the 90* heat, same with a 10.0 stock stroke 318. The magnun head chamber is very tolerant of high cylinder pressure if set up right.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2055709
04/16/16 07:37 PM
04/16/16 07:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154 Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
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Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
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If you got tight quench the compression is very mild for that cam, bet it would be OK on 87. I ran a stock cam 392 stroked 318 at 10.2 and it was fine on 87 even at seal level in the 90* heat, same with a 10.0 stock stroke 318. The magnun head chamber is very tolerant of high cylinder pressure if set up right. audible knock perhaps. Unless you were running nothing for timing.
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055711
04/16/16 07:38 PM
04/16/16 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
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OK, I'll get it out of the way - my 416 made 500 HP @ 6,000 rpm and 500 lb/ft of torque almost all the way between 4,000-5,000 rpm. I will be honest, I wanted it to make 525 hp but I'll take 500.2.
I was so wound up this morning, I was up at 5 AM. Despite any nervousness I had, everything went pretty well. There were no surprises or anything that was way out of whack. It fired right up on the first crank and the break in went fine.
The only issue that arose were some small oil leaks at the corners of the oil pan. Thankfully it was not the rear main or front seal, probably just needs more silicone in the corners but the pan will probably have to come off. He ran it with the PCV valve off which I thought might have helped with the leaks some but he said no. Other than that, all was well. Really, the whole thing was like a walk in the park.
The biggest job was re-installing the inner valve springs. Me and the dyno guy worked as a team and got the job done in under 30 minutes. I brought my own valve spring compressor and it helped a lot. He did set the lash tighter than me, at least by feel. Lash was loose for the break in so after the springs went back in it was tightened up to .016" intake and .018" exhaust.
We made about 8-9 pulls, the first few were pretty conservative and stayed under 6,000. It definitely wanted to go more so he took it up to 6,600. The numbers started to fall off around 6,300 so there was no point in revving it any higher.
Air was dry, barometer was 30.25, was about 60-65 degrees today. He told me what the vapor pressure was but I can't remember now.
There wasn't much in the way of tuning. I set the timing at home to 20 initial and 34 total. He backed it down to 32 for the first few pulls but ended up going back up to 35 total. The distributor has one of those FBO limiter plates which makes life easy.
Carb is an OOTB Proform 850. It came with 76 jets in front and 84 in the back. On some of the earlier pulls, the A/F ratio was between 12.1-12.7 when it was making power. He thought we could lean it a little bit so we stepped the jets down 2 sizes front and rear but the power stayed exactly the same. After the jet change, the A/F was like 12.9-13.1 so going back up on the jets would have been wasting fuel. I was just glad the carb was not upside down like on my last motor.
After we were done it occurred to me that this combo might benefit from a 'better' intake with a larger plenum and maybe a longer runner but my old school, gasket-matched Strip Dominator did pretty well.
Though he didn't show it, I think it surprised the dyno guy a little bit. When I dropped it off the yesterday he laughed when I said it would make 500 hp. After it was done he didn't have much to say and said it ran good. He claimed the dyno is stingy. Who knows. He was also flatulent and said BB Chebbies blew away Hemis. OK.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with it. It didn't blow up and it sounded absolutely nasty. I'm proud of myself for sticking it out through a bunch of hurdles and missteps. I lived out a long-time dream of mine which was to make an honest 500 hp with an iron-headed small block.
I brought my old digital camera to take a movie but it didn't record for some reason which I'm bummed about. Wish you all could have seen/heard the thing, it's bad a$$.
So obviously the next phase it to get the motor back into the car which means fixing the leaky pan, dealing with the headers etc. etc. It might be a few weeks before that happens but I will be driving the car this summer and taking it down the track as much as I can. That will likely only amount to a few times but I'll take what I can get, I haven't driven it for over a year.
Here's the combo;
factory 340 block, bored to 4.070, align honed BPE 4" crank Scat 6.125 rods w. Chevy journals King bearings, Diamond 21 cc dish pistons, 1.457" C.H., .927" pin CNC ported RHS/X heads by IMM w. 2.02 intake valves approximately 10.3:1 CR w. Fel Pro 1008 gaskets Not sure what brand spring but whatever Brian puts on these heads, maybe PAC? Spring pressure is 155lbs. at 1.800 I.H. and 350lbs. at 1.200 spring height IMM spec'd Comp solid FT 251/259 @ .050". with Hughes 1.6 rockers .585"/.593" net lift installed at 106. Pro-gear timing chain Smith Bros pushrods gasket-matched Holley Strip Dominator intake Proform 850 74/82, 4.5 PV vintage '80s MP tach drive distributor Taylor 8mm wires MSD 6 AL + Blaster E coil NGK #5 plugs, .045" TTi 1 5/8-1 3/4 W2 step headers Mech. flow Kooler water pump Clay Smith mech. fuel pump (not used on the dyno)
That's it, a simple iron headed small block. Aiming for 11.0.
After two days of handling an engine, I'm wiped out. Just finished my beer and am about ready for bed.
Just wanted to give a quick thanks to Brian @ IMM for the heads and cam, Glenn @ B+B Machine in Oceanside, NY for the great machine work and Merkel Racing Engines in Hauppague, NY for the dyno day.
Thanks for reading.
Looks good! The victor with minor porting will make 12-15HP more than the intake you have, but doubt you'd notice it on the street. Thank you for posting the results and for choosing us for the heads/cam... Brian
Brian Hafliger
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Re: 416 on the dyno
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2055714
04/16/16 07:40 PM
04/16/16 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Bone stock factory ECM controling the timing on both, they even had the beer barrel intakes that absolutly bake the air before going in the ports. Even towing they ping less than stock ones with no quench.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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