Alky and timing

You guys running alky..I have a toilet myself..what are you setting the timing at..right now I'm at 35 ..

451 lo deck 13.1 comp.msd dizzy 73x int.690ex.roller. 69x ext.roller ..haven't got the chance to get out yet gotta go over the valves hot got them set at 18 cold calling for 24 hot..

Just start there, and once the fuel is right, tune for best mph.

I agree, start at 35 degrees, tune the fuel system, then see if it will run the same with 34 or 33 before going beyond 35. I run 34 with 15/1 compression ,alky, 528, 440-1 heads.

572 B1MC 15.3-1 Compression Ran 36 degrees up from the 34 I ran on Gas.Twin Toilets

I have done a bunch of MFI engines and have found that most people run way more timing and fuel then they need to for max power.


FYI i have a b-1 head 512 and run 32 degrees



Joe

I'm a firm beleiver in using my tools to tune my parts, timing light, wide ban or time slips with my weather station. That being said I will enrich the mixture until the car slows down and then go the other way until it starts to slow down agian All changes made on the SAME DAY Same thing on timing but retard it one or two degrees max at a time first until it starts to slow down and then advance it a little bit, 1 or 2 dgrees, at a time until it starts to not like that also I'll normally run the least amount of timing and the smallest jets that are safe (regardless of fuel type) and leave it alone unless the density altitude changes more than 1000 FT. from that tuning location I'm seeing that the local pump E 85 fuel doesn't really care as much on the density altitude changes from morning until late afternoon like the pump gas and race gas did

Plugs will tell you all you need to know... Use a new plug somewhere in motor(any cylinder will work) for each fuel or timing change. It makes it much easier to read.

Got bigger problems now ..changed my old have a 12 qt. Pan put in 10 qts Rotella t6 drain oil in have about 12 13 qts rest is alky..I'm bout done with this lol but new with it at the same time

Since this problem is reinstall the high speed by pass so I'll see how it goes but this stuff not cheap ..50.00 in oil not 2 miles on it nahh I can't do it much more

Are you sure the barrel valve isn't too rich? Are you using the shut off to lean it out when you idle it? I had the same issue with the oil when I started running injection. My issue was all from not leaning it out when idling to get heat in the thing. Once I started getting the oil hot enough to get the moisture and alky out of it no more problems.

We set it with the leak down ran fine crisp changed plugs wow what a difference..I'm at a lost

Thinking about it ..maybe it was before we set the ball valve..I'll try this and see

Run Delo oil till you get it lined out, only out 25 bux for 2 gallons

What percentage of leak down did you set the Barrel Valve to?

22 but like I said I took the hi speed by pass out after so now it's back in ..I changed my oil first time no metallic no nothing changed this time a few flakes I'm worried..I have oberg so I'm scared

Keep an eye on it and don't run it long without looking at the filter

Start lean at idle, adding fuel till it will not hesitate when you crack the throttle below the temp you want to race at.
I lean my motor out for warmup till the exhaust temps get up to 950/1000 degrees. That won't happen till the motor starts to warm up a little, I see about 500 leaned out on a cold start and keep leaning it out as it warms. After a run I make sure the motor is hot enough to clear water and fuel out of the oil, somewhere over 180 to 210.

22 percent ran fine

We set it at 22 percent all was good then I started the valves and the timing..fresh motor now all hell breaks..need help lol

I use a leak down for 2 things, get a starting point and finding out where i ended up at. That being said, I would start the car up and use the fuel shut off valve to lean it out until it reached operating temp. Then once you are at operating temp, put the lean out in normal run position. Now you need to shorten the linkage between the barrel valve and throttle linkage a couple of "flats". now you going to "wack" the throttle to see if the engine still responds. If it does then lean a couple more flats and repeat until it stumbles. once it stumbles add flats until it doesn't, then add two more flats and you are set. Now check your leak down for future reference. if at any time the idle gets to high, use the throttle blade to close the air gap. the idle screw is for idle speed, the barrel valve is to set the idle A/F ratio. DO NOT USE THE BARREL VALVE TO SET YOUR IDLE SPEED.

some notes, each engine has a different leak % due to pump size, idle check valve pressure and of course cam. i also have customers bring their own leak down gauge, they all read different.

one more thing, can you post a pic of your engine? mostly want to see where the fuel lines are running.

I agree with sr4440 on the leak down tester. I also use the wack method. I also wouldn't add the confusion of a high speed by pass until you get a handle on the base tuneup.

SR440 nailed it and 22% seems like alot with that size engine. Thinking it should be more closer to 17%

Here are 2 picturesof the motor...

If you look to the left of the water pump you can see the by pass it put back inline..

Rons has very good customer service. You might give him a call to help get a base tune to start with. Does motor make any heat at idle? I agree it sounds like it is very fat at idle. Don't give up. Injection can be tough at first.

Dang that's cool, get some video of that thing.
I like it

what is that by-pass set at? there is only one by-pass in system?

Motor makes a little heat but I haven't let it run long enough to move to temperature gauge..the block is filled to the bottom of the water pump holes..I called rons and that's what I'm going by great guys there but as was said earlier I think each is going to be different but he did give me a baseline to work off of..my buddies car is blown with injection he helps me as much as he can but his is alot different being blown and other stuff ..I just don't wanna mess this thing up again last year cost me having the crank fixed from cylinder full of alky.

Similar to the injectorator system.

yep only down fall of alky. cannot ever leave any in motor. clean out after every race.

I pulled the by pass apart it has a 70 in it..

What pressure is it set to open at?

Ron told me 60 lbs open .

Is the HS mounted directly to the pump? I mean without a hose (vibration absorption)between the HS and the pump? If it is, the vibration of the engine could knock the valve off the seat. put a short -6 hose between the 3-way and the HS.
This doesn't have anything to do with you milking the oil, but could be a issue later.

The reason I wanted to see the pics is because i seen incorrect routing of fuel line cause big time fuel in oil. yours looks good as long as the HS and main return don't combine going into the tank.

If you have not already, might i suggest looking over the kinsler handbook, it get good around page 14

http://kinsler.com/images/CATALOG/072707/Cat56Pg_Whole_LR.pdf

Joe

The hs is directly to the tee I'll add some line to it ..thanks for the link I'll read it and hopefully learn more of this set up ..I hate to kill the motor again lol

I may be confused but is there not a idle bypass or main bypass? One bypass at 60 psi would make system very fat. I could be missing something. Have not messed with a rons system.

No idle by pass my friend suggest I get 1 ..the hs is the only thing in the line ..filter before pump tee with 1 line going to ball valve the other line going to the hs by pass to the tank and 1 line coming off the ball valve return to the tank ..

Rons shows an idle by pass in their systems.

look at your output fitting coming out of the barrel valve, you should see a steel ball with a spring holding it against its seat. That is your idle check valve. they will work without it, but setting the idle is tricky.

the ron's combination valve doesn't have a idle bypass port the way a enderle K valve does. it uses a main pill with a idle check valve behind it.

Joe

Yes it does have that in the fitting..also I just pulled things apart to check ..barrel valve has a 86 jet 37 nozzles 70 jet in by pass ..

The bypass pill is a little big, but i wouldn't worry about it right now. the rich idle is the reason your putting so much fuel in the oil. what size pump do you have?


Joe

0 1/2 black pump

I really appreciate you guys helping out with this..

Very good read gives me somethingsome to look over and check ..thank you