Small block heads

Any body using small block heads from toth (cppa).I saw these heads at Carlisle and looked like a nice product.

Never heard of them, and didnt see them at carlisle.... Is there a website for them?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Toth-Performance/858358800898221 all i could find but only shows bigblock heads.

Go to your local newsstand and buy Chrysler Power Magazine. They are all wrapped up in this. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....
R.

Seems they are made by pro-comp, keep hearing about pro-comp heads for everything else being useless out the box so I would spend a little more on something else that the guids don't wear out in no time flat and nicer casting quality...

I subscribe to Chrysler Power magazine and received this information about the SBM heads:

Some additional information:

Ive never been one to want to be Mr Popular so I dont mind getting the flack I will get from writing this.

Yes procomp makes alot of junk, but I feel they did pretty well with the newer casting. And unless one pops for a set of castings and works them any thing posted or read is 100% speculation.

There is so much bs about these castings on the web its pretty messed up.

There is also many who from the start was on the rant of no heli coils, powdered seats, ect. And thats never been the case.

You can do far more with the procomp casting then an edelbrock casting as I have both and worked both.

For approx. $1300 you can build a set with even a bit more port volume the the airwolfs that were sold for what 3k maxed out.

So they are cast in china, BFD. So are the major parts of most the stroker kits used but since the finish work is done here in the usa I guess that is why they get a pass but no one complains about that aspect of things.

The procomps with a long stem valve can get a 1.90 to a 1.95 installed spring height and support some really high lifts. Thay can take a 2.08 intake but really ive not seen much improvement over using a 2.055. The only questionable part might be the guide quality but in the big picture how hard is it to put in good ones when you remove them for porting?

Ive tested them on a 318 and did all I could to make them fail and they have not.

I have another set on a race block and I wouldnt do that if I had one single concern.

If you gave a set of these casting to a fella to setup and told them they were made by a american company I dont think many neg. things would be said.

To be realistic, almost everyone has there ootb edelbrocks looked at and corrected prior to install but they seem to get a pass as well.

I have edelbrock casting, indy 360-1s and play with the procomps because ive not found a reason not to.

So when the day is done, is there really a mass produced ootb head that never has an issue or can be cleaned up?

They seem to be like a hooker with a chipped tooth, they can get the job done but no one will talk about it.

" You can do far more with the Procomp casting than an Edelbrock casting" - where is the difference ( besides being able to run longer valve stems )? Do you have a specific CNC program for these heads? Do you have ported flow numbers? Why 68 CC chambers OOTB? Thanks, John

If the valve angle is wrong as the specs in the picture indicate, I am sure the head CC is wrong too. J.Rob

I will be more then happy to share what I learned. My goal was to use a middle of the road shaft rocker and a solid camshaft and not max things out to break parts. And keeping it simple with a .600 lift at the valve cam with a good bit of duration, near 280@50.

I will bring my HD home from work this weekend and post the figures and charts.

Im looking for my little memory card with the progression pics of the 190cc castings to 225cc.

But on a small one I found the as delivered pics. Ive got some side by side ootb eddies pics im looking for but here is what the pc heads look like as delivered, the port floor and turn is one thing that was very clearly different.

Who's CNC program ?

Thats as delivered from pro comp, I will take the time today to look up some old emails as I mapped where pro comp is located and the company they use is like in the same industrial area, it looked like 3-4 miles or such.

When I had questions they gave me the number of the place and who to talk to because the pro comp salesman could not answer my questions.

When I did look up the company it seems the do cnc work for alot of head makers.

G&S Machine Shop is 3 blocks from Speedmaster in Rialto, Cal

I cant find what email addy I got the info under, I will look for the invoice as it has the email I used then.

But the above posed sounds right, but Craig at PC im sure would tell anyone who asked.

Direct Motion does PC's cnc work...they also do the iron Indy head I sell.
Brian

I think we talked about these but how were the flow numbers on the 190cc's

In the interest of fair reporting, this is the invoice for my AirWolf 220's on the Pro-comp casting. I only have 1700 street miles, and 16 passes on the engine so far. They were hard miles, as I completed Drag Week, and my cooling system is less than adequate, so the poor girl spends a lot of time at 200-230!!
Love the fact that my old headers, and Crane Gold 1.5 rockers bolted right up

Disclaimer: Probably not a good idea to try to purchase anything from Dr.J's Performance

Yeah, What J said. Was simply posting in regards to the castings.

They seem to work very well, just a shame Bryce is a crook.

Am glad to see some of them reported that work, but for the money id hope they would.

Im sure DJ got a killer deal on the castings as the best I could get was $835 a pair for the CNC units but im sure that has changed since they seem to sell a boat load of them, ha ha, wonder how many the boat holds.

But at say $850 for the castings, and the ferrea 6000 series were $300, comp springs, tit retainers I think im like $1450 with a 225 cc runner.

John here is the chart from PC, I never flowed the 190 cc castings and this was said to be with the 2.02 intake.

Im lucky I found the above chart, Ive 2, 2 terabyte? drives full and its suck a cluster f---k.

I do know I got 306@.550 as that was a target I had set to reach.

I dont sleep much so I should find the full flow chart tonight.

I really dont know if DJ used a "different" casting as some said. I cant see PC changing a core box for a small run, but what do I know.

These started out as the 190cc heads.

So, if you consider the port work to bring them from 191 to 225 is worth 1000-1400$, you are in the same range as the AirWolfs were priced at, simply a matter of paying for it, or doing it yourself.

I'm not sure what the best numbers guys are getting from the E-brock Performer RPMs.

I considered the Indy 360-1 245 for my build, but when you add a grand for rockers, and considered the amount of reports I heard from end users having water leaking problems, I avoided that route.

Kinda sucks about how things went down in regards to the Air Wolf head. IMO probably the best bang for the buck head ever offered for the SBM. I though I read some where that someone was going to acquire Bryce's program and produce them. Might have been Chad Speier, I don't recall. It would be nice if someone would pick that ball up where Bryce dropped it. Heck for that matter make an offset intake rocker version too.

Like others here, I would like to have seen some real world flow #s from legitimate independent sources ( not bogus advertising #s ).

Well , for some of us it is , and for some of us it isn't.
I DO get that they are an affordable alternative for many.
But I also get what sending our money and jobs off shore costs us in the long run.
I have no intention of changing anyone's mind.
Buy them or don't.
I won't.

Perhaps a question previously asked and answered in another thread, but here it goes.
How about ShaddyDell?
How about the Hughesengines offerings?
They have offset rockers for there moves pushrod "Big Mouth" heads.
Does anyone KNOW how they perform vs. stated/claimed air flow numbers?

Thanks for all the good info and pics!!

Well except for the valvesprings Bryce Providing not being anywhere nere the spring pressures he stated, I'm very happy with the airwolf castings and flow. There's a related thread here:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1885434