1971 Roadrunner with factory Carter AVS

Do you have one or had one and is there such a thing?

What engine? Do you have the broadcast sheet?

The application is a 71 Plymouth Road Runner with a 383 automatic.

He's looking for proof that they may have come with an AVS

No AVS but ABS standard.

here we go....

No AVS, which Holley it had would depend on several things, N96 or not, etc.

your next question will be
do you have something to back that up?? lol

Per the OP in another post, broadcast sheets are only for statistical purposes and not at all related to what was actually installed on the vehicle

I had not seen the other thread.....Until now.

Was wondering when we would get your input....

Statistacal yes but I never said it was unrated to equipment installed on vehicle. Now your putting words in my mouth.

Come on Scott, that thread is hours of entertainment

There is no broadcast sheet that came with the car. On closer inspection, it looks like something was attached to the exhaust manifold on the left side. This by itself, is not proof of anything because I don't know if these manifolds are original to the car, but there is a small broken stud on what looks to be a mount for something. Could this be old evidence of a hot air stove?

from the other thread...
"Can't help you, chum if you don't believe what I'm telling you. Holley R4668 carbs were put on Roadrunners with heated air intakes like I mentioned in a previous post. Mine never came with that option so I got the Carter AVS. Typical numbers found on broadcast sheets are fine for statistical purposes but they do not describe the rules for putting which carb on which car. FSM does."

What possible STATISTICAL purpose would broadcast sheets serve the factory???

As others have stated, their purpose was to instruct the line workers as to what parts to install.

My 71 RR had the N96 option. Car use to belong to 340shorty who has passed on. He was the original owner. According to him the car came with a Holley. The car was a 383, auto on the column.

Butterscotch71,

general rules that describe what carb goes into what engine/tranny combo are found in the FSM. That's what I said. I never said build sheets were unrelated to how a car is built.

Pacnorthcuda,

It would serve absolutely no purpose at all. I wasn't referring to line workers when I made that comment. Or the factory. I was referring to our friend Butterscotch71. Because of what he has been doing, collecting all that data on all those build sheets, they have great statistical importance. To him and to us. Got it now?

L.R.H.

You need to find a BS sheet showing an AVS installation on said car.

Got it now?

ahh
Captian Obvious tried to tell him that before
but he threw him overboard and he continued to
paddle on his own!

"general rules that describe what carb goes into what engine/tranny combo are found in the FSM"

The factory service manuals do not define “rules” as what engine/trans combo is used in what body line. As already posted in the wing nut thread, the FSM only provides information about processes and specifications necessary to service and maintain the various vehicle components, arranged by component groupings, or systems, and covering the FSM’s brand (Dodge or Chrysler/Plymouth FSM) full body line. The factory parts catalogs sole function is to accurately define factory replacement part numbers based on the original part applications. In this case, once the correct carline code is understood and applied, the ’71 parts catalog clearly shows the 6125S was used on a 383 variant used for C-bodies only and all B&E body 383HP applications having Holleys originally. Any third-party documentation that counters this, or fails to show any Holleys, is just wrong.

*sigh* and then

It's highly likely my car came with a heated air intake. Both the parts book AND the FSM corroborate this. If so, I'm convinced that the OE carb on my car was a Holley variant mentioned in the pic I posted 400 posts ago. If people here spent more time properly explaining things with proof and reasoning instead of bashing and character assassination, and forced opinions, convincing would come far faster with much less frustration on everyone's part. You and about 4 others were helpful in convincing me on this this. The others; not so much.

That's part 1. Part 2 doesn't explain how a factory carb (Carter AVS) came to sit on my intake all those years ago. If the Holleys were cheap, leaky and unreliable as others have suggested, why wouldn't the former owner replace it with an aftermarket carb? Is this perhaps evidence of a dealership warranty program that existed for faulty Holleys?

Forest.

You gotta think 1975, or so. These days we know of online shopping and everything at low prices, well that was not the case 42 years ago. New aftermarket parts were expensive, and seldom worked correctly.

So a guy has a wrecked car, neighbor with a wrecked car, junkyard guy that gives good deals, etc. get a carb from a factory 383, it will bolt on, jetting is right for the size of the engine, kickdown will hook right up, factory choke will function for winter driving, etc.

Myself I always get a factory Chrysler carb when putting together a driver type car, they work and hook up correctly.

Yeah I can see that happening if it was outside the warranty period when these cars were new. Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that this happens to a fairly new Roadrunner a few years after it leaves the dealership. Wouldn't that be covered under the warranty or were fuel system components exempt from whatever warranty these cars were covered with 3, 4, 5 years????

That car didn't come with a Carter carb, and it came with a stove pipe heated intake system, end of story, get over it. The stove pipe was not an option, all cars except Air Grabber cars got it. Didn't you say it had a Edelbrock carb on it now? So, why all of the back and forth when it doesn't even have a Carter carb on it to start with?

You would get more/better help if you framed the discussion differently. Taking a position on something based on incomplete information, convinced 100% that you are right, sticking with that position regardless of the information that others present, then finally when the evidence is overwhelming stating that you have now changed your position and everyone is probably now correct because they agree with your position...really doesn't make them want to help you in a productive way. Getting to know who on this site has a lot of knowledge about these things, asking a question and listening to their feedback rather than presenting the sole purpose of telling them they're wrong would get you a lot farther. It seems like another thread you posted awile back too a similar tone (F81 tag code if I remember correctly) but not as bad.
There are plenty of people on here who like to help others with what they've learned about these cars with no other agenda of wanting to prove themselves right...but they want to have a reasonable conversation about it, not a prove-me-wrong discussion.
Just my 0.02...for all that's worth.

All I can say is this, without trying to argue with ANYONE, is:
What Butterscocth71, 72roadrunnergtx, AND others ARE correct what they're saying and I agree with their statements.

I guess because I'm trying to understand how the Carter came to be installed on my car. There's a story behind that and I'd like to know what it is.

I appreciate your 2 cents. Off hand, I have no recollection of the F81 issue. I'm a skeptic. I've always been a skeptic. Often when presented with proof, I believe. When offered proof this time I didn't believe it or found it difficult to because of what my reference books were telling me. My reference books are not junk as some suggest. They list the same info as the FSM and the FPM. However they are incomplete. That by itself doesn't make my books useless if you know they are incomplete.

there are certain things we will never know.

could have been installed by dealer early in it's life

could have been something found in a junkyard

could have been someone thinking the Holley on it was wrong so they went out to try find what they thought was the "correct" Carter

Be in this long enough and you'll see all kinds of weird stuff

Another thread and quote

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1279397/1.html

My friend who worked at a Plymouth dealership in 1971 said they repeatedly replaced the Holley's with a "conversion kit" 71 AVS 6125S. If you have an air conditioner engine carb, it has the hot idle compensator bar in it as well. Maybe Air Grabbers as well. I think that's what its called.

Another quote

I will provide further first hand back-up of the existence of factory provided Carter conversion kits for the Holley 4160 applications, performed the conversion many times myself during my time at dealers back then. They were packaged as complete kits, fuel lines, choke springs, any other hardware required, fully covered if under warranty. Installed correctly, appeared completely factory installed. Can�t tell you just how many 4160�s wound up in the trash, considered pure junk then by those who serviced them and many under hood fires were blamed directly on them.


Anyways



My 71 Superbee , I bought from the original owner in 1984

When I spun a rod bearing on the vin numbers matching block I pulled the motor for a 440 at the time

The factory intake and Carter 6125s that was on the 383 Magnum are up in the garage attic

I remember back in the day pulling the factory motor and how everything was covered in undercoating including the underside of hood and wiring . Valve covers , factory dual snorkel air cleaner , intake and even carb had undercoating on it . Why is that significant, because the original Ziebart sticker is still in the corner of the rear window along with some of those hole plugs in the door jambs . Car of course has been repainted but I always kept the Zeibart sticker back there . Original owner told me he had brought it to Ziebart shortly after owning it


Broadcast sheet shows Carb number for Holley

Thanx Scott

Yes, I read the thread from back in August 2012. It's exactly what I was interested in reading. My car was not A/C so I still don't know if it was covered under the dealership Carter 6125 conversion program.

from 72RoadrunnerGTX:

I will provide further first hand back-up of the existence of factory provided Carter conversion kits for the Holley 4160 applications, performed the conversion many times myself during my time at dealers back then. They were packaged as complete kits, fuel lines, choke springs, any other hardware required, fully covered if under warranty. Installed correctly, appeared completely factory installed. Can�t tell you just how many 4160�s wound up in the trash, considered pure junk then by those who serviced them and many under hood fires were blamed directly on them.

Looking at it from hindsight, the original Holley in my 71 Roadrunner was very probably a non Air-Grabber R-4668A. I'll probably never know if the Carter 6125S that was in my car was a factory retrofit under a warranty program. But you know something? it probably explains why i keep seeing so many references to Carters in shop manuals that I've seen including my original Chilton's repair and tune up guide for Satellite/roadrunner 1968-73.

Thanks for finding and then including this very interesting thread from yesteryear!!