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frozen brake drum

Posted By: poison_ivy

frozen brake drum - 10/04/14 06:01 PM

Took the hub/drum assembly off the A100 and can't get the drum free from the hub. I want to change the LH thread studs to RH threads. I used PB blaster and a 20 ton press and no luck. What else can I try?

Attached picture 8290608-image.jpg
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/04/14 06:14 PM

Did you cut the swages off the studs ? (Assuming they are still there)
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/04/14 06:26 PM


The pic below shows the studs before and after swaging, if you don't remove the swaging before removing the studs the hub can be damaged.

Attached picture 8290638-Drumstuds_02.jpg
Posted By: wannadrag

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/04/14 06:26 PM

I had the same problem on a 67 Barracuda.Tried a press with no luck,ended up giving it a good wack on the end of the hub with a post maul and finally cracked it loose.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/04/14 06:30 PM


Here's the cutter used to remove the swages, an automotive machine shop might have one and Goodson sells them.

Attached picture 8290641-Swedge_cutter.jpg
Posted By: therocks

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/04/14 08:57 PM

Yeah you need to cut the swedges.Id almost say if you got carried away with the press the hub might be bent.If its bent good luck.It will need replaced.Had a brake mechanic try what you did once.New drums fixed what he did along with the hubs.Rocky
Posted By: poison_ivy

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/05/14 05:02 AM

Had no idea about the swaged studs, but a bigger hammer took care of it! Now I have to get new studs, and I want to change the LH for RH. Is there a particular part # I should ask for. Do the studs HAVE to be swaged when I install new ones?
Posted By: moparx

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/05/14 02:04 PM

before you use that hub again, put it back on the truck and check the runout of the hub to drum face. if it's bent, you will be not happy after you install your new drum and studs , then find out it's bent...........
Posted By: twinscrew698

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/05/14 03:07 PM

Back in the day shops used this to remove and install!
Click on the PDF file above^

Attached File
8291294-Bendix_73911.pdf  (340 downloads)
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/05/14 03:37 PM

Quote:

Back in the day shops used this to remove and install!
Click on the PDF file above^





Attached picture 8291320-Untitled.jpg
Posted By: twinscrew698

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/05/14 09:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Back in the day shops used this to remove and install!
Click on the PDF file above^







Thanks i think i fixed it,Had to use another program to flip it and re-save it!
Although you have to go into your download folder to open it,at least i did!
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/05/14 09:19 PM

Quote:

Had no idea about the swaged studs, but a bigger hammer took care of it!




You can lead a horse to water but.............
Posted By: poison_ivy

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/05/14 09:53 PM

Thanks everyone for the info. I did get the drums and hubs separated. I don't think the drums are damaged, but I will check. Mopar obviously did some strange things a while back. Still can't figure out why they had LH & RH threaded studs. I'm for sure going to change that!
Posted By: moparx

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/06/14 03:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Had no idea about the swaged studs, but a bigger hammer took care of it!




You can lead a horse to water but.............



with that being said, i have had to replace many hubs over the years that had been bent by not removing the swedge on the studs. mopar was famous for using them. gm & ford, not so much. this was mainly because there was no support under the stud being removed. however, IF you got the stud out with the BFH and didn't somehow bend the hub, then you said bad words when the new studs fit really loose upon installation. why ? because upon removal, the swedgs ground the serration hole oversize on the way out. then it was either tack weld the stud to the hub, or try to find another stud that was slightly[approximately .010] larger on the spline od. than the original application. sometimes it just isn't as simple as it seems.
Posted By: poison_ivy

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/06/14 04:20 AM

I have never come across a swaged brake drum before. Yes the holes are slightly larger now, but is that going to be that much of a problem? I mean when your running down the road, with all lugs tightened, what could go wrong? I'm not trying to be a butt about this,but I've owned and worked on a lot of my own cars over the years, and never encountered such a thing. Why would you seriously need the studs swaged? Just wondering if it's absolutely necessary. I just thought of something, why aren't the rear drums swaged on?
Posted By: buildanother

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/06/14 05:50 AM

Nothing wrong with leaving the drum loose on hub, AS LONG as the drum does not get caught on edge of stud knurl when wheel gets snugged down.
Posted By: GeorgeH

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/06/14 08:35 AM

Quote:

I have never come across a swaged brake drum before. Yes the holes are slightly larger now, but is that going to be that much of a problem? I mean when your running down the road, with all lugs tightened, what could go wrong? I'm not trying to be a butt about this,but I've owned and worked on a lot of my own cars over the years, and never encountered such a thing. Why would you seriously need the studs swaged? Just wondering if it's absolutely necessary. I just thought of something, why aren't the rear drums swaged on?




The problem will rear it's head at 2 am on a dark and lonely night when your trying to remove a flat and the studs are spinning.
Posted By: SportF

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/06/14 03:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Had no idea about the swaged studs, but a bigger hammer took care of it!




You can lead a horse to water but.............



with that being said, i have had to replace many hubs over the years that had been bent by not removing the swedge on the studs. mopar was famous for using them. gm & ford, not so much. this was mainly because there was no support under the stud being removed. however, IF you got the stud out with the BFH and didn't somehow bend the hub, then you said bad words when the new studs fit really loose upon installation. why ? because upon removal, the swedgs ground the serration hole oversize on the way out. then it was either tack weld the stud to the hub, or try to find another stud that was slightly[approximately .010] larger on the spline od. than the original application. sometimes it just isn't as simple as it seems.





I have said this before here,you don't want to weld on those hardened studs (and all studs are grade 8 hardened to my knowledge). It will embrittle the head and it will fall off. In 6 months, or 6 years, it will fall off. In my case, 10 studs tack welded to hub, 7 heads came off 6 months later. Moroso studs.
Posted By: skicker

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/06/14 04:22 PM

Not to hijack here but I am getting ready to tear my A-100 straight axle apart for the my 65 AWB car. Are the swedged studs something that was typically used and is this cutter something I need to purchase prior to disassembly? thx...
I want to stay drum brakes but was reading where the 10 x 2 1/2 drums used for a 65 Coronet spindle are also interchangeable with the A-100, and I don't recall having the swedged studs on the Coronet front drums.
Posted By: SportF

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/06/14 11:48 PM

65 drums should be swedged also. You can get the studs out without that cutter by drilling the heads out from the back. But even with good drills and a drill press this will take some time.
Posted By: moparx

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/07/14 03:22 AM

as was said previously by another member, "i don't want to be a butt ", well i don't want to be either. i'm just relaying what i have learned[mostly the hard way]from over 45 years of messing with this stuff. you guys need to re-look at the above pic mr. kunkle posted showing the swedge before & after. at the minium, you WILL make the drum hole larger pressing the stud out without getting rid of the swedge first. it will also leave a burr on the drum hole which ,unless removed,will not allow the drum to reseat on the hub correctly, causing wobble of the braking surface. swedging was used on almost all chrysler drums. in fact, on page #5-32 of the 1985 fsm for d&w 100-300 & ramcharger, in the front disc brake assembly, it clearly shows the swedging of the studs in a disc hub, and those are not 2 separate pieces. it looks like chrysler swedged most front drum/disc studs up untill late model disc/hub setups came into being.
Posted By: Centerline

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/07/14 06:35 PM

Hi guys,

I wrote the Wiki article where John Kunkel got the pic of the hub above. The article was showing how to convert the rear brakes to slip on drums on pre-65 8 3/4" rears with tapered axles. Although I wrote this article about pre-65 tapered axle rear ends, this procedure for removing the studs should work on any swedged stud hub.

First, you need to cut the stud off flush with the outside of the drum. You can use a cut-off wheel for this or a hack saw; just make sure you have them flush with the drum surface. Then, center punch each one and drill a 3/16" - 1/4" hole in the center of each stud about a quarter inch deep. This will relieve the stress and allow the swedged area to curl in on itself when the stud is pressed out of the hub. You need to do this for all five studs. Then from this point, it is a simple procedure to press out the studs. With this done you now have the hubs and drums separated. Remember this procedure will basically ruin your drums so don't use it unless you plan to replace them.

I'm not sure post 64 Mopars used the same size stud, but if so the rest of this will apply. You now need to press in new studs. The stock lug bolts on these old Mopars are 1/2-20 UNF thread with a 0.622" knurl. The knurl is the ridged part of the stud that fits into the hub. In order to have a good tight press fit you need to make sure whatever stud you use has a knurl size of at least 0.622", but it can't be too large either. If it's too large, it will be difficult to press in and you stand a chance of damaging the hub. NAPA has studs that have a 0.623" knurl (part number BK 641-1128) and these work very well. Below is a picture of a set of my '64 Polara rear hubs with these non-swedged studs installed.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/07/14 07:57 PM


Quote:

Hi guys,
I wrote the Wiki article where John Kunkel got the pic of the hub above.




Uh-uh, took that pic myself and first posted it back in 2003....everybody else uses it. (and that's OK)
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/07/14 09:50 PM

Quote:


Quote:

Hi guys,
I wrote the Wiki article where John Kunkel got the pic of the hub above.




Uh-uh, took that pic myself and first posted it back in 2003....everybody else uses it. (and that's OK)




The plot thickens...
Posted By: Centerline

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/08/14 01:33 AM

Quote:


Quote:

Hi guys,
I wrote the Wiki article where John Kunkel got the pic of the hub above.




Uh-uh, took that pic myself and first posted it back in 2003....everybody else uses it. (and that's OK)




Sorry about that. Looks very similar to the one I took when I was doing the rear brakes on my Polara. After going back and looking in my files, you're quite right that must be your pic, mine was not as sharp as yours and showed some grinding marks where I had removed the swedged stud and replaced it. I actually did use yours in my article because it was a better pic. Its been about 4 years since I wrote that and I had simply forgotten.

Thanks for pointing that out, now after wiping the egg off my face, life can continue.
Posted By: therocks

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/08/14 01:46 AM

We had the cutter and the swedge tool at work before.Im just sorry I didnt get it when they closed the shops.Idiots even scraped 20 ton OTC presses that cost about 2K each in 86 and they were like new.Rocky
Posted By: moparx

Re: frozen brake drum - 10/08/14 03:22 AM

the popular knurl size is .622, but i have seen .643 used also. if you need to drill oversize because you gacked up the hub hole, remember, you need a .010-.015 press fit for the knurl splines[the od. of the splines being bigger than the hub hole]. i believe the dorman line lists studs by spline od. and length.
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