Searching for the PN didn't find anything, so I'll just ask - Anybody running the Hughes "Real" 6-pack cam? PN HUG SEH2226BL-10.

I'm starting to sort out the build for the numbers-matching 440HP from my 68 Sport Fury, and the primary goal is to end up stock-ish looking but making more power than when new. Should be easy enough if I focus on a near blueprint rebuild with upgrades to take advantage of the last 50 years.

Manifold vacuum sufficient for power brakes and the HP exhaust manifolds are going to be the biggest crutches to making power. I know that a bunch of folks have made good power with manifolds, but I think most of those combos have been hotter than what will work with PB. Hughes specifically calls out manifolds on this cam, so I'd like to hear how this one works with PB, or what kind of idle vacuum it makes with your combo.

Link to Hughes webpage:
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=32342

Cam specs:
BB HYD FLAT TAPPET 222/226 110+3


This cam is a little smaller than some of the options I've been looking at, but I'd like to hear some real world experiences if they're out there.

Thanks!

Clair

I think you need to have 112 to 114 lsa with stock ex manifolds.

That's part of my curiosity about real world experiences - AndyF ran 5 cams through manifolds on his 493, and they all made good power. Four of the five has LSA's of 112-113, but the one with 108 made the most torque and was subjectively the best driver cam:
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html

This Hughes cam is at least 10* smaller at 0.050" than the smallest cam tested, so I don't want to draw a conclusion just from that data set.

The factory 440 HP / 6-BBL cam was 214 at .050" intake, 226 @ .050" exhaust, 115 LSA installed on 112 (ground 3 degrees advanced).

IMO, the cam Hughes lists as the "real" Six Pack cam isn't a great match for combination of a heavy car, long gears, low-stall converter, etc.

Here's what Hughes has on their site about this cam:



I'll give Hughes a call to see what they have to say about this one, but it appears that they were thinking about manifolds from the get-go.

The Fury is heavier than my Valiant, but not by a huge amount - iron everything in the Valiant, and it's 3,600# with me in it. The Fury has a 3.23SG out back, 2.5" TTI's, and a 2200rpm converter, so she's really a plus-size GTX.

As I recall, it was also the smallest and the slowest.

It's hard making any real power with ex manifolds.

Smallest, yes, with "only" 236 @ 0.050, but highest peak TQ, highest TQ @ 3000rpm, and only down 9hp from peak HP. The article didn't show track results, but I'd wager it would be the quickest.
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html

Their description sounds closer to their 216/220, 112 LSA cam.

I don't believe you have enough stall speed or gear for anything bigger. It'll run better with the smaller cam, even if it looks too small on paper.

"...The Racer Brown piece was also a blast to drive on the street. Rolling into the throttle at 35 mph instantly brought the rear end up in the air and started the tires to haze. The extra torque around 3,500 rpm really woke up the car. To be totally honest, the slight reduction in power past 6,000 rpm isn't going to be missed in our combination..." That little solid looks like the best cam for that combo.

I'm quoting your quote!Where is this from and what cam(s) does this refer to?
RT

I have never used that cam, but it looks good?
It is really hard to compare different cams with the specs they normally advertise. The Hughes 0.050" duration may look shorter than some others, but I'd guess the 0.200" duration is as large as some 230+ duration @ 0.050" cams?

@ RTSrunner

This is the cam and article. Look @ "Round Two The small solid" for more details but the summary data spells it out pretty nicely. Remember street/ pro-touring car, moderate compression, cast manifolds YHPMV.

Keep in mind that Andy's Coronet and the OP's car are very different combinations.

This is a true statement. If I was running a manual trans, or if I was looking at a 500" build, I'd probably just order that Racer Brown cam and move on down the road. Whatever compromises it might be making with manifolds in place are more than made up for by the midrange that thing appears to have. I feel like it would only pull about 10-11" of vacuum in a 440, and I don't think that's enough for PB. So, Brown will have to wait for another day in my garage.

I called Hughes over lunch today and talked with Dave about the 6-pack cam. He said that their cam reduces the exhaust duration compared to OEM, and that with the higher lift makes the exhaust work better with manifolds than the OEM cam. He thought that cam would be fine with my combo if I build it as planned, and didn't have anything he thought would work better as long as I kept the manifolds. He didn't have any specific dyno results on the website, and didn't know anyone that had been to the dyno on their own.

I wonder if anyone on the A12 forum is running one...

Clair

I would call MR SIX PACK-BOB KARAKASHIAN and ask about his cams.

Got it,thanks!
RT

BOB K's cam isn't any bigger than the specs I posted for the OEM cam, although it use lobes more aggressive than the OEM cam.

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I've bought a lot of stuff from Hughes over the years, so I'm not a Hughes basher by any means. However, the following statements from above are both incorrect:

"Our 6 pack replacement cams have the same overlap as the OEM 6 pack, same duration @ .050" on the intake with a reduced exhaust duration."

"... talked with Dave about the 6-pack cam. He said that their cam reduces the exhaust duration compared to OEM..."

Not sure what he's basing his duration & overlap comments on, but I measured an actual OEM '69-1/2 A12 RR camshaft in the car's original engine and posted the results on here years ago:

Int - 292 @ .004" / 214 @ .050" / 124 @ .200" / .449" (1.5)
Exh - 310 @ .004" / 226 @ .050" / 133 @ .200" / .459" (1.5)
LSA: 115 +3 (112 ICL)

For comparison at .050" durations:
OEM HP: 214 intake, 226 exhaust, 115 LSA = Overlap of -8.00 Degrees (NO overlap at .050" duration)
Hughes: 216 intake, 220 exhaust, 112 LSA = Overlap of -6.00 Degrees (NO overlap at .050" duration)
MP 272: 222 intake, 222 exhaust, 112 LSA = Overlap of -2.00 Degrees (NO overlap at .050" duration)
Hughes: 222 intake, 226 exhaust, 110 LSA = Overlap of 4.00 Degrees

Also, saying "NO overlap at .050" duration" does NOT mean there isn't ANY overlap. The overlap triangle is defined by the intake open & exhaust close events at seat duration. When I ran the MP 272 cam noted above (with 1.75" headers, I should add), it had a mild, but noticeable, lope at idle. When I swapped from OEM 1.5 stamped rockers to Crane 1.6 iron rockers, that lope increased a good bit due to the increase of the overlap triangle resulting from the higher-ratio rockers. I don't think that cam would have been "happy" with exhaust manifolds, either.

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The OP seems to have shifted from "I want advice" to "I want people to agree with me" on his cam choice. He should just buy what he wants and move ahead with this build.

Well, to be clear, the question I asked was "Anybody running the Hughes "Real" 6-pack cam?" Read that however you want, but no part of that is looking for approval or advice - it's looking for experience. Apparently, real experience with this specific cam is hard to come by, but in finding that out we went down some interesting rabbit holes on how LSA & overlap affect certain engines. The data points you posted on the factory cams are also interesting and adds value to the thread.

I've never bought anything from Hughes, and I don't know if I'm any closer now. Rest assured, I'll buy the cam I want, but before I do I'll try to learn as much as I can from the experiences of others so I can make an informed decision. If there's not much experience out there, I'll make that decision based on data points and assumptions, not warm fuzzies I get from a crowd.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Understood. Other people, myself included (obviously), were trying to provide additional info to help explain what to expect given the application. Hey, it certainly wouldn't be the first time I've gone "overboard" in a response on here.

FWIW... I still think what you described for engine / car / exhaust / converter / gear is a good match for the 216/220 on 112 LSA Hughes. You won't be able to take advantage of a high RPM range (it's probably maxed out by or below 5500 RPM), but it'll keep the torque up to help move things off the line more quickly. A "big" cam is going to soften up things in that range and only come into its own at RPM levels you won't see regularly.

Carry on.