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front end issues #870828
12/04/10 02:27 AM
12/04/10 02:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
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mickm  Offline OP
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California
i'm having an issue with my front end, where it feels like something is loose. overall it drives well, but it feels like there is something loose that catches when the wheels are not pulled at equally. for instance i went over a very shallow, wide pot hole on the highway, and the car kind of jumped to the right, and then immediately corrected to straight ahead. it wasn't major, like scary, but very, very noticeable.

i know the steering is a little loose, probably and inch or two of play in the wheel before it grabs, but no feeling of it grabbing, so it isn't that far out of adjustment.

i have a tie rod end that the boot has been missing for a while, so i will replace that.

the only other thing is it looks like the seal where the steering shaft comes out of the box (manual) is leaking a bit.

i was under there a while ago, and everything felt nice and tight, i couldn't find anything, but didn't spend a lot of time looking either.

so how do i go about testing things? sometimes just grabbing and pulling isn't enough to see that something is actually loose. things like tie rod ends and the steering linkage is pretty simple, but what do i do to know the other components are in good shape?

can someone give me a basic rundown on that? it's up in the air on jack stands now.

Re: front end issues [Re: mickm] #870829
12/04/10 03:19 AM
12/04/10 03:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
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Yancy Derringer Offline
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Montana
I doonnnooo, what you describe "could be" serious, serious enough that I'd get some local help if necessary.

ONE THING you must do when checking for slop is to unload the ball joints. You do this by jacking up the car --typically with jack stands---and supporting the LOWER CONTROL ARMS so that there is no weight on the ball joints.

Now you can use a small bar and pry and push on things and see what moves.

Do you run headers? I had a 340 in my old '70 for a while (sixpack body) and the headers occasionally "bit" the drag link. Not good

Consider also that there could be something like a broken chip or bearing ball floating around in the manual? box, or even something in the steering column

Re: front end issues [Re: Yancy Derringer] #870830
12/04/10 03:28 AM
12/04/10 03:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
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mickm  Offline OP
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California
Quote:


ONE THING you must do when checking for slop is to unload the ball joints. You do this by jacking up the car --typically with jack stands---and supporting the LOWER CONTROL ARMS so that there is no weight on the ball joints.

Now you can use a small bar and pry and push on things and see what moves.

Do you run headers? I had a 340 in my old '70 for a while (sixpack body) and the headers occasionally "bit" the drag link. Not good

Consider also that there could be something like a broken chip or bearing ball floating around in the manual? box, or even something in the steering column




that's along the lines of what i was thinking, taking the load off the ball joints and prying around on things. just wanted to get some advice to how exactly to go about it all.

don't think it's header hitting the drag link, but i'll look.

and yes, it probably is serious enough that i need to track it down, however i do it.

Re: front end issues [Re: mickm] #870831
12/04/10 04:32 AM
12/04/10 04:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 842
Urbana, MD
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bordin34 Offline
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Urbana, MD
Worn LCA bushing, it would allow the LCA to wander around over bumps.

Re: front end issues [Re: mickm] #870832
12/04/10 04:40 AM
12/04/10 04:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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So Cal
Lift the front end up on jackstands. Grab the tire and turn it in and out while looking at each linkage point. You need to get you head close to each joint to look real close. So it take some flexibility to move the tire and get you head under there.

Also try getting someone else to move the tire and put you have over each joint. Sometime you can feel the slop between the two parts.

Do the same to the tire top and bottom to see for wheel bearing or upper or lower ball joint play.

**Grab the idler and try to move it up and down. That is usually the first thing to go. Symptoms like you describe.

Re: front end issues [Re: mickm] #870833
12/04/10 11:38 AM
12/04/10 11:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
Boise Idaho
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Boise Chall Offline
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Boise Idaho
Check the steering box bolt the 3 that mount it to the K-frame. Mine was doing the same thing and these bolts worked themselves loose. I locktited them and tightened them. also check the shoes in the steering column coupler joint to make sure they are installed correctly.

Re: front end issues [Re: Boise Chall] #870834
12/04/10 12:19 PM
12/04/10 12:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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1969RR Offline
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Anderson, IN
Make sure the steering linkage is tight! The linkage is known as a "parallelogram" type system. If the relay rod is not "parallel" to the ground (you can eye-ball whether it's level with the oil pan). If this is not level, you will get what's called "bump steer". A dangerous situation going over bumps just like you describe. Like was mentioned, ck the bolts on the gear box, looseness at the idler or the non-parallel situation. Try raising the front of the car off the ground, then start the car. If the steering wheel cranks to one side or the other, the gear box pressure valve needs adjusted. Again, make sure ALL bushings, ball joints, etc are in good, safe working order. Hope this helps!! Jeff

Re: front end issues [Re: 1969RR] #870835
12/04/10 01:12 PM
12/04/10 01:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
SD
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zrxkawboy Offline
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SD
I second autoxcuda's idler arm suggestion. Do you hear a clunk when you go over a bump? That's what mine did when the idler arm was loose. Unfortunately, though, it could be several things, so I would start by seeing if you can find play in any of the parts.


It's Swifty! Swifty, you toad sucker!
Re: front end issues [Re: zrxkawboy] #870836
12/04/10 02:10 PM
12/04/10 02:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
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mickm  Offline OP
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California
Quote:

I second autoxcuda's idler arm suggestion. Do you hear a clunk when you go over a bump? That's what mine did when the idler arm was loose. Unfortunately, though, it could be several things, so I would start by seeing if you can find play in any of the parts.




pulling out of the driveway the other day, at an angle backing into the street, there was an audible clunk. i drove back and forth and couldn't reproduce it, but it was definitely there the first time.

hopefully i'll get under the car today or tomorrow, and report back.

Re: front end issues [Re: mickm] #870837
12/04/10 03:31 PM
12/04/10 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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@#$%&*! Offline
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Thigh-Gap Junction
To check the steering, center the steering wheel at straight-ahead and have a friend rock the steering wheel gently back and forth while you watch EVERY joint in the steering system. You should also watch the steering gear input/output movement to see if there is slack in the gear but this MUST be done with the steering gear in the center of its travel and the steering wheel at 12:00. You should be able to spot any bad joints, loose bolts, worn idler, etc. this way. Ball joints are tougher but others have covered that. You can push/pull on the top of the tires to test the uppers but it isn't 100%.

Re: front end issues [Re: mickm] #870838
12/04/10 09:43 PM
12/04/10 09:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
Boise Idaho
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Boise Chall Offline
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Boise Idaho
Like I said I had the same problem with that exact same clunk you described while backing up with the wheels turned to the right if I remember correctly it would also grab every rut in the road it was a handful to drive to say the least. It was a loose steering box. I didn't figure out what it was until it was almost too late one of the steering box bolts was gone and the other 2 only had a couple threads holding them in. You need a 3/4 inch socket and I think a 6" extension I didn't even need to jack up the car to check them or tighten them.

Re: front end issues [Re: Boise Chall] #870839
12/05/10 08:05 PM
12/05/10 08:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
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California
so i was under there today and couldn't find a thing. replaced the tie rod end, and there was a lot of resistance in the old one. the right drum was also the slightest bit loose, so tightened up the bearings.

once the tie rod end was on and tightened, everything feels rock solid. grabbing every point i could and pushing, pulling as hard as i could yielded no movement at all.

do i need to release the torsion bar to check the LCA? i tried to raise the LCA, but it moved only slightly before it started to raise the car off the jack stands.

Re: front end issues [Re: mickm] #870840
12/05/10 09:19 PM
12/05/10 09:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 601
Clintwood VA
johnedod Offline
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Clintwood VA
I'd do as mentioned above and put a bar under the tire and lift up on it. I checked ball joints once by holding the tire at the top and bottom and trying to get movement by pushing and pulling. Seemed pretty tight but I put a long bar under the tire and picked up on it and found some slack in the lower ball joint.


Johnedod
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71 Road Runner
78 Power Wagon
Re: front end issues [Re: Boise Chall] #870841
04/02/11 06:08 PM
04/02/11 06:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
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mickm  Offline OP
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California
Quote:

Check the steering box bolt the 3 that mount it to the K-frame. Mine was doing the same thing and these bolts worked themselves loose. I locktited them and tightened them. also check the shoes in the steering column coupler joint to make sure they are installed correctly.




BINGO! steering box was loose. i don't know why i passed it by the first time, but when i got on them, i could move one with a short box end wrench.

guess that's a good lesson, always worth checking things multiple times....







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