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Streetwize #972164
04/12/11 07:54 PM
04/12/11 07:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline OP
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sixpackgut  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Charleston
messing around on Wallace and was playing with optimum intake runner length and after i put in engine size 493, cylinders 8 and peak torque rpm (i guessed) and put 5200.

it say my optimum runner length is 16.5" long! and runner area of 3.63"

as bizzare as that sounds, i think weiand sells a spacer to put in between the runners and plenum. i just might get these carbs over my roof yet

http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

what do you think about that?


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Streetwize [Re: sixpackgut] #972165
04/12/11 08:31 PM
04/12/11 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
master
Streetwize  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
valve cl to the head mating surface is what, about 5.5"-6", so that's a 10" runner length roughly. That assumes mathematically a constant cross section (as though the runeer were cylindrical or rectangular volume) which really isn't attainable (in most engine configurations) and doesn't compensate for taper and also doesn't consider compression, valve timing or many other variables...it also perobably assumes the rest of the engine is also going to be tuned for that peak as well (with no regard to making more power above that peak).

Taper variables can be huge, ex my 414 is about 3.87 sq inches (~3.2 x 1.2) at the plenum of the Victor intake, the head port entry is ~2.47" (~2.19 x 1.13") but immediately necks down at the pushrod pinch and the overall runner length is approx 10" (varies).

These are helpful in terms of getting optimum VE for a narrow operating range (EG the long ram mopar manifold from the 60's were designed primarily to boost acceleration in the "passing gear" range.

Is there a calculator for optimum runner length for peak power? I suspect you will find those runners much shorter.

A "better" way to look at it might be to take known runner lengths and cross sections and see where the optimum peak torque "naturally" occurs for a given displacement.

there is a direct correlation between cross section and "ideal" runner size for a given displacement.

The thing to Take away when dealing with standard port 440 big block engines is that the cross section is optimized for a much lower Peak torque RPM than what is typically desireable for a "high HP/cube" motor, as I've said the ports are barely 12% larger than a 340 which displaces 25% less size. to raise HP above the 'natura;l' torque peak you need more compression, more cam (when combined they are a way to overcompensate for the smallish port) and by keeping the runner shorter and as unrestricted as possible.

a tunnel ram does have longer ports, but don't forget they are also STRAIGHTER ports and are charged with a much larger Plenum area and (when carbs are properly sized) proportionally less pressure drop at WOT than a four barrel.

Reducing pressure drop across the venturi (getting as close to 0 as possible) improves torque output.

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/12/11 09:02 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Streetwize [Re: Streetwize] #972166
04/12/11 09:24 PM
04/12/11 09:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline OP
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sixpackgut  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Charleston
i went out and did some measurements and was surprised to see that my tunnel ram's runners were actually shorter than a M1 outside runners were. on a eddy head it was 4.5 to 5.5 valve to intake. my runners were only about 7 inches on the ram. even though that program tells you optimum torque at a givin rpm, isnt that what everyone putting together an engine should be shooting for?

lets say that mod man intake has a runner length of 4", i could not crunch numbers in any logical fashion that would even suggest a runner length that short. it would be a costly experiment for me just to try it

when i look at new engines like a 6.1 hemi i see the same thing, very long runners.


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Streetwize [Re: sixpackgut] #972167
04/12/11 10:09 PM
04/12/11 10:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quicktree Offline
I Win
Quicktree  Offline
I Win
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Ray you have to much time

Re: Streetwize [Re: Quicktree] #972168
04/12/11 10:20 PM
04/12/11 10:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline OP
Drag Week Mod Champion
sixpackgut  Offline OP
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
Quote:

Ray you have to much time




not enough money.

i dont think i have to much time, i'm usually out in the garage every night. i just wasnt that into it tonight and got the new car craft and saw the cam quest article then that made me start playing with the wallace calculators which made me think about a mod man intake which made make a post to Wize because he thinks it would be better for my engine and i was surprised by the results.

so now i wanna try these


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Streetwize [Re: sixpackgut] #972169
04/12/11 11:03 PM
04/12/11 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Cudajon Offline
pro stock
Cudajon  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Yessir, thats why mopar came up with the long tube intake back in the early 60's. Those mopar engineers where really ahead of there time.







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