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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: plazomat]
#950888
03/14/11 11:26 PM
03/14/11 11:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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With Holleys previous track record with EFI I wouldn't touch anything they sell.... You'll likely tell me about some magazine article you read that raved about how well the system works..... To which I'll tell you advertisers pay big $$$ to get nice things said about their products & unfortunately magazines need $$ more than integrity....
FAST EFI sells efi.. They don't have Holleys advertising budget so if you see an article it probably is an honest review....
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#950890
03/15/11 12:58 AM
03/15/11 12:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
master
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master
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Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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TBI and real fuel injection are 2 different things. TBI is a better carb from the fuel metering viewpoint but it has all the other carb drawbacks. Port injected real EFI is the way to go if you're going to spend the money do it right.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: HemiRick]
#950891
03/15/11 01:08 AM
03/15/11 01:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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BTW if you want to talk to someone who knows EFI check the post below my previous post & click on the link to Mopar Rich's website.....
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: plazomat]
#950893
03/15/11 01:22 AM
03/15/11 01:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Something I typed out years ago that explains my dislike for Holley EFI... I bought one back in the late 90's after reading a couple magazine articles about what a great system it was... I knew it wasn't the trickest but it had to be better than a carb... Anyway ... I ran a Holley Pro jection DFI system, it ran great....Sometimes...It had no memory capabilities, so the only way to find a problem was to be watching the laptop when it screwed up...If it were a hard fault, no problem, but intermittent problems weren't so easy...The first time I fired it up it had a failed injector...replaced TB assy under warranty...Next a intermittent air charge sensor, it was quicker to just buy one, only $50.00, running pretty good, took a road trip to LA, lost a MAP sensor about 15 miles from home, luckily it made the other 600 or so miles...Running good again, drove it most of the summer, not as consistent as the carter carb but way cooler to be able to pop the hood & say "Yeah its Injected"...  Another road trip, Sacramento, on the way there I start getting a surge, about 40 miles from home the surge starts feeling worse, I pull off the freeway & the car dies...Call AAA & tow it home...Lost a fuel pump, leaned out & cracked a manifold...As it turns out the exhaust wound up fighting me for three years after that till I got both the warpt flanges & the other manifold replaced as well...You know the carter runs really consistent I think FI is a good thing, I just feel Holley did a cheap half-a$$ job of it & used the cheapest components that the bean-counter in charge of purchasing could find...
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: plazomat]
#950894
03/15/11 11:14 AM
03/15/11 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Would love to go with MPFI but can't find a manifold for the 318 and my budget..everyone I look at wants like 4-500 to modify my manifold.
Mopar Rich,
I am pretty sure it comes with an O2, what are the issues with the self tuning and the holley?
hmm...switch to a magnum top end and use a stock magnum intake/tb?
a friend bought a holley 4di, could never get it to run right, ditched it, and bought a commander 950, a lot better, but 3 years later, still isn't totally tuned to perfection.
bummer with the FAST EZ-EFI in my book is the lack of ignition timing control.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: plazomat]
#950895
03/15/11 11:46 AM
03/15/11 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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Quote:
Mopar Rich, I am pretty sure it comes with an O2, what are the issues with the self tuning and the holley?
I can't be specific because I personally haven't tried to use one. I can only go from what a few of my EZ customers have told me. The O2 comment comes from the Summit web site that lists what comes with the system. I've been in EFI for years and when I decided to start FAST Man EFI I went with a company where the software and hardware engineers are full time employees of the company because I knew I'd be pushing the envelope with custom configurations. I can call the FAST programmer and discuss issues one-to-one.
Manifold: You should be able to find a port injected manifold for your engine. Even from a junkyard. FYI: The EZ system is available for port injection. It's $825 minus the injectors and the TB.
Patrick - Ign Timing: Yes the EZ system does not control timing, but most people have a nice timing curve in what they already have, and that lowers the cost because no ignition stuff has to be bought.
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: plazomat]
#950899
03/16/11 09:33 PM
03/16/11 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,078
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Dartman75
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,078
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Would love to go with MPFI but can't find a manifold for the 318 and my budget..everyone I look at wants like 4-500 to modify my manifold.
Mopar Rich,
I am pretty sure it comes with an O2, what are the issues with the self tuning and the holley?
I have a spare intake. It's an RPM Air-Gap I did for my first buildup. It's the one in my sig pics. It's currently on the shelf. The intake worked fine, the rails would need replaced as they were on the border of leaking. Feel free to contact me about it via PM. I'm even in the same country 
Yes the price to modify these intakes is silly. Some company should produce the things! I think Mopar has an intake with suitable bosses over the runners, but it's for magnum heads. I think even Edelbrock has magnum head intakes with suitable bosses, how bad could it be to adapt to LA blocks? Ah well, the price of exclusivity.
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: Dartman75]
#950900
03/17/11 12:46 PM
03/17/11 12:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Would love to go with MPFI but can't find a manifold for the 318 and my budget..everyone I look at wants like 4-500 to modify my manifold.
Mopar Rich,
I am pretty sure it comes with an O2, what are the issues with the self tuning and the holley?
I have a spare intake. It's an RPM Air-Gap I did for my first buildup. It's the one in my sig pics. It's currently on the shelf. The intake worked fine, the rails would need replaced as they were on the border of leaking. Feel free to contact me about it via PM. I'm even in the same country
Yes the price to modify these intakes is silly. Some company should produce the things! I think Mopar has an intake with suitable bosses over the runners, but it's for magnum heads. I think even Edelbrock has magnum head intakes with suitable bosses, how bad could it be to adapt to LA blocks? Ah well, the price of exclusivity.
or just get some magnum heads 
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: patrick]
#950901
03/17/11 03:45 PM
03/17/11 03:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
or just get some magnum heads
Because it's "just" that easy! Really probably would be worth it in this application tho if just for the cheap junkyard magnum intake.
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#950903
03/17/11 05:14 PM
03/17/11 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
or just get some magnum heads
Because it's "just" that easy! Really probably would be worth it in this application tho if just for the cheap junkyard magnum intake.
1) if looking for a cheap MPFI intake, it's your only option
2) big flow gains over 318 LA heads, with a nice compression boost
3)probably already has the lifters if he has an aftermarket (non MP) cam
4) only other changes needed would be new pushrods ~$50, and some modifications to his alternator bracket, probably.
Last edited by patrick; 03/17/11 05:19 PM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: Dartman75]
#950905
03/18/11 08:49 AM
03/18/11 08:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
A friend and board member did the magnum head swap. Kept his LA intake so had to drill the heads. But wow, that 318 with those heads would have slapped my bone stock 360 sideways so bad it would have been like I left the emergency brakes on. IfI had driven that 318 car before putting my 408 in the works, I'd have just gone that route I think. If you can do the head swap, that really will give a lot of both ponies and saves $$$ on intakes.
the old engine in my 5th ave was a stock pistoned 360 with a comp XE262, home ported 1.88 heads, headers, 600 eddie, and an RPM air gap, comp ratio was a tad under 8:1, ran hard on 87 octane, got 15mpg mixed
the new engine is the original 318 shortblock, magnum heads home ported by me, the same headers, intake and carb as the 360, a bullet 259/316 lobe hydraulic roller cam (10 degrees less .050 duration, 3 degrees less .2 duration than the comp XE262). comp ratio is 9:1, runs just as hard as the 360 on 87 octane, gets 17.5mpg combined.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Holley HP EFI suggestions - kinda long
[Re: patrick]
#950906
03/18/11 10:25 PM
03/18/11 10:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 643
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
plazomat
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 643
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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So not so much love for holley around here...looking into the warranty kinda sucks 90 days? on the other hand FAST is a year and voids it for race vehicles. Head swap and mpfi are on the wishlist down the road but not possible right now. I figured holley tbi for now, later the MPFI harness for the same ECU is $100, keep the tbi air only and do swap. I like the feature list of holley alot, but will have to look deeper into unbiased reviews to see if the quality is up to snuff. Rich ever find out why you think the holley system isn't true self learning? PLAZOMAT 
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