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Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? #936829 02/24/11 11:38 PM 02/24/11 11:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I'm looking to reduce the squeeze in my 440/493 and I was thinking of using a gasket THICKER than the Fel Pro .039 #1009 gasket. I have seen .051 gaskets on the 440 Source site, but has anyone used these? I am using aluminum heads with a compression ratio of 10.8 with the standard .039 gasket. A .051 will drop it to 10.5. Not a big drop but it may reduce chances of detonation in 100 degree summer driving. The .051 would help, and a .060 might be the limit as anything thicker may need longer pushrods, cause intake port misalignment, etc. I know that the easiest way to find this out is to call Mancini, but my west coast work hours make that difficult. Can anyone help? Last edited by Frankenduster; 02/25/11 11:33 PM.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936830 02/24/11 11:42 PM 02/24/11 11:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot
dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	LOTS of work doing that for .3 compression ratio ...PLUS you will lose power... I would seriously consider WATER INJECTION

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936831 02/24/11 11:44 PM 02/24/11 11:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	You want thicker? I think the Felpro 8519 (+ 2 #'s I forget which) (the std FP blue BB ones) are iirc .054". what is your quench? live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: RapidRobert] #936832 02/25/11 12:22 AM 02/25/11 12:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,867 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,867 Ontario, Canada	.051 Felpro's are the thickest "off-the-shelf" gasket you'll find (about $150/pr from Summit, Jegs, etc.). No problem using those for your application. You could probably get thicker from Cometic but they'd be a custom MLS gasket which "should" have a finer finish on the block. They ain't cheap either!

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Stanton] #936833 02/25/11 12:34 AM 02/25/11 12:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	If you have any cam at all in, you shouldnt need to reduce the compression. Your bascially at 9.3-9.8 to 1 with iron heads. Plenty of guys run 10 plus with iron heads on pump fuel with no problems. Im at 10.6 with iron heads, no quench, etc. Timing at 34 total I have no problems. I do put a few gallons of 100 in it at the track. 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Von] #936834 02/25/11 01:03 AM 02/25/11 01:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY challengermike super stock
challengermike super stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY	cant you just back the timing down for the street and mix in alittle racegas at the track and bump it back up?

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936835 02/25/11 09:32 AM 02/25/11 09:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA	Depending on your cam, you might be able to get away with what you already have.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936836 02/25/11 10:30 AM 02/25/11 10:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	What is your piston to head clearance? If your running a .039 gasket & your pistons are .011 in the hole your at the very edge of effective quench.. Increasing gasket thickness could actually be worse... It may sound wrong but a thinning gasket could be your best answer if the piston is in the hole .011-.020... Beyond that & your not gonna help it with a thinner gasket..... As mentioned tuning & water injection could also help.. "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: BSB67] #936837 02/25/11 10:33 AM 02/25/11 10:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Sorry guys, I should have included more info. I am running the '509 MP cam and have Edelbrock aluminum heads. It couldnt tolerate much more than 31 degrees of advance even when using Californias dog water 91 octane "Super" unleaded 15% ethanol gas. I used to run the distributor w/o the vacuum advance, but after reading articles in Mopar Action and from other sources, I ran a line to it and will keep it that way. The pistons are actually at .017 in the hole, and with the .039 gasket, I'm probably already at the edge of losing quench anyway, right? .039 + .017 = .056. I ran the Cometic MLS gaskets a few years back and the car ran great. I believe they were custom made and .060 thick. I was able to increase the spark lead to 34 degrees and the motor felt crisp and responsive. I ended up pulling the heads when I found stem wear on some of the valves, and I couldnt afford to buy the Cometics at the time of reassembly. I had a set of Fel Pro 1009 gaskets so I used them instead. A thread on the Race forum asked of the percentage of power gained/lost with compression changes. The consensus in the past was that each point is worth 4 % of power, EXAMPLE: An engine that makes 400 HP with 10 to one should make 416 with 11 to one. This of course assumes ideal cam conditions and zero detonation. The thread had many opinions and even some actual real world research showing the tested results to be lower than that, often in the 2 % range. I would gladly give up 2% of 500 horsepower to gain more streetability and to avoid having to pull the motor apart every few years! The 440 Source website listed a no name .051 gasket for $15. I was a little suspect of its quality, partly due to the Wal Mart price and the lack of a brand name. Thanks for the help. Last edited by Frankenduster; 02/25/11 10:38 AM.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936838 02/25/11 10:39 AM 02/25/11 10:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	where did you run the vacuum advance line too?? Ported or manifold vacuum? Cometic MLS gaskets can generally be cleaned and reused. Last edited by Dodgem; 02/25/11 10:42 AM.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936839 02/25/11 10:52 AM 02/25/11 10:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	I would pick up a set of Cometic .027 gaskets or even consider going with the steel shim gaskets at .021 with the piston .027 in the hole either would give you effective quench especially the .021 which would put you @ .038 which is about ideal but I'm not a fan of steel gaskets with aluminum heads... The MLS would put you @ .044 which is near the top of where I'd like to see the #... .056 is just wrong, either less than .050 preferably less than .040 or plan on lowering the compression & timing quite a bit....

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #936840 02/25/11 11:31 AM 02/25/11 11:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Have you had a AFR meter hooked up to know your air/fuel ratio? Something doesnt sound right to me. I had the .509 in a 10.5 to 1 iron headed motor. I never had ANY detonation with that motor. Open chamber heads, so no quench at all. 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936841 02/25/11 11:32 AM 02/25/11 11:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA	Obviously you're on the edge. I don't know if taking your motor to 11.0:1 and improving quench will solve your problem. Maybe. If you ran a 0.060" gasket in the past and it worked better for you, at least you know the results. You could also consider moving the the intake closing point, possibly in combination with the .051" gasket. If you retard the cam 4 degrees that will make a difference. Enough, I don't know. Do you know what your current cranking cylinder pressure is?

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: BSB67] #936842 02/25/11 11:33 AM 02/25/11 11:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Quote: Do you know what your current cranking cylinder pressure is? 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936843 02/25/11 11:35 AM 02/25/11 11:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	You're problem is your cam choice , you already have little quench switching to the thicker gasket is the wrong move here .

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #936844 02/25/11 11:43 AM 02/25/11 11:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I ran ported vacuum. This was during the last 100 miles before I pulled the motor for the teardown, so I didnt get much seat time to determine any fuel savings or driveability improvements. I am collecting the parts for reassembly now. I yanked the motor because of an oil burning condition. I have run the gamut with bad cams, a broken rocker shaft, valve stem wear and who knows what else. When I tore down the motor, I didnt find a smoking gun as to why it burned oil, but the machinist did. The rings were bad, and the cylinders were smoother than they should have been for a motor with less than 3000 miles on it. I had the cylinders deglazed, cleaned the pistons and I'm cleaning eveything for the re-rebuild. The rings and bearings just came in yesterday, and by midweek I hope to be ready to set the heads. NOW is the time to decide on head gaskets. I could simply default to the Fel Pro #1009s since I already have a pair.....

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936845 02/25/11 11:48 AM 02/25/11 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Little late but I would have had the block decked to zero the pistons.... "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936846 02/25/11 11:52 AM 02/25/11 11:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA	Quote: I ran ported vacuum. This was during the last 100 miles before I pulled the motor for the teardown, so I didnt get much seat time to determine any fuel savings or driveability improvements. I am collecting the parts for reassembly now. I yanked the motor because of an oil burning condition. I have run the gamut with bad cams, a broken rocker shaft, valve stem wear and who knows what else. When I tore down the motor, I didnt find a smoking gun as to why it burned oil, but the machinist did. The rings were bad, and the cylinders were smoother than they should have been for a motor with less than 3000 miles on it. I had the cylinders deglazed, cleaned the pistons and I'm cleaning eveything for the re-rebuild. The rings and bearings just came in yesterday, and by midweek I hope to be ready to set the heads. NOW is the time to decide on head gaskets. I could simply default to the Fel Pro #1009s since I already have a pair..... Sounds like there were a lot of things not right before. I would be cautious in solving the detonation problem when apparently there were other things going on with the motor. This alone.... Quote: "I yanked the motor because of an oil burning condition." .....could be the cause of your detonation problem.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936847 02/25/11 01:23 PM 02/25/11 01:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	Oil consumption is huge in detonation problems. I can't see you actual cranking number being more than 190 lb and with aluminum heads you should be fine. I believe quench is less critical with aluminum heads than iron heads. Quench should allow the same power at less spark lead than a less than perfect quench motor but I am sure people over rate it mostly on their magazine learnen not 100% the best sources.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: BSB67] #936848 02/25/11 01:25 PM 02/25/11 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: This alone.... Quote: "I yanked the motor because of an oil burning condition." .....could be the cause of your detonation problem. This and this Quote: Little late but I would have had the block decked to zero the pistons.... Not to late ,sounds like the engine is still apart, maybe not zero but I would get them closer to zero .

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Dodgem] #936849 02/25/11 01:38 PM 02/25/11 01:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA	190 psi with CA 91 octane might not be doable. My experience is it won't work with gas in PA. Last edited by BSB67; 02/25/11 01:58 PM.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: BSB67] #936850 02/25/11 01:42 PM 02/25/11 01:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Enginemasters 470 ran 12.2 compression with .035 quench , alum heads , and reverse flow cooling on 91 oct with no detonation at 36* , I do not know what the cranking compression was .

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Dodgem] #936851 02/25/11 01:47 PM 02/25/11 01:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Oil consumption is huge in detonation problems. I can't see you actual cranking number being more than 190 lb and with aluminum heads you should be fine. I believe quench is less critical with aluminum heads than iron heads. Quench should allow the same power at less spark lead than a less than perfect quench motor but I am sure people over rate it mostly on their magazine learnen not 100% the best sources. While I agree oil can/will cause detonation your inference that quench is over rated & magazine "learnen" to me suggests you haven't built any motors with effective quench... I've played with hotrods for 30+ years & early on I foolishly trusted my machine shops to spec & build my motors.. They never ran like I thought they should.. Now I do everything but the machine work & I measure the work very accurately... I hold a tight quench which has often required more trips to the machine shop because most local shops even "performance" shops seem to be conservative or just plain sloppy... If you trust the numbers your given & don't measure it yourself you really don't know what you've got.. The O/P's .017 in the hole is exactly what my pistons spec at.. But they measured between .023 & .029 because the decks weren't at blueprint spec & they weren't square.... If his .017 number is a measured number than he's on the borderline of quench/no quench.. But if his pistons are actually over .020 in the hole he has no quench effect at all... I'd rather see the number under .040... "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #936852 02/25/11 01:49 PM 02/25/11 01:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Quote: Quote: \ While I agree oil can/will cause detonation your inference that quench is over rated & magazine "learnen" to me suggests you haven't built any motors with effective quench... \ Well some fellows at Ross pistons dont see that quench is all that important... 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Von] #936853 02/25/11 01:53 PM 02/25/11 01:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Quote: Quote: \ While I agree oil can/will cause detonation your inference that quench is over rated & magazine "learnen" to me suggests you haven't built any motors with effective quench... \ Well some fellows at Ross pistons dont see that quench is all that important... When your building a race engine that doesn't need to run on pump swill then you don't have to worry about quench... You want to drive with crap fuel you might want to try it... "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: JohnRR] #936854 02/25/11 02:01 PM 02/25/11 02:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,311 Prospect, PA	Quote: Enginemasters 470 ran 12.2 compression with .035 quench , alum heads , and reverse flow cooling on 91 oct with no detonation at 36* , I do not know what the cranking compression was . Sure. Reverse cooling and big cam....no surprise at all

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #936855 02/25/11 07:42 PM 02/25/11 07:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	quote When your building a race engine that doesn't need to run on pump swill then you don't have to worry about quench... You want to drive with crap fuel you might want to try it... My discussion with the guys at Ross was a 10.5 to 1 470 that Im building. Will run on pump fuel... I think the quench factor is WAY overrated..and the guys at Ross backed me up. Ive personally have had 2 instances with no quench and 10.5 to comp with iron heads and no detonation problems. Building another non quench motor with 10 to 1 in iron and the 470 mentioned. Also putting together a 11 to 1 512 with aluminum heads. All on pump gas. I dont expect any problems with any of them. IMO, the cam plays more of a role than quench... If you look around there are plenty of guys on here "breaking the rules" so to speak. Last edited by Von; 02/25/11 07:44 PM. 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Von] #936856 02/25/11 11:48 PM 02/25/11 11:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	My cranking compression was between 180 and 192 the last 2 times that I checked. These consistant numbers made diagnosing the oil burning problem difficult. My machinist thinks that the 2 cams that went bad may have led to rapid ring wear. I also wonder if the overrich Demon 850 may have caused some increased wear due to dilution of the oil and cylinder wash. A Dyno shop had installed a 7.5 power valve. I have read recently that the power valve should be HALF the number of the engines vacuum while idling in gear. This motor certainly never had 15 inches of idle vacuum. The overrich condition during cruise and throttle tip in must have dumped alot of fuel in the cylinders! I switched to a 3.5 PV at the same time that I added vacuum advance, but by then, the motor was in need of a rering anyway. I am now leaning toward using the .039 gaskets I already have. The tighter sealing pistons and (hopefully) reduction of oil burning should return the motor to the power level it had when I first built it in October 2004. Thanks everyone for all the suggestions!

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936857 02/26/11 02:14 AM 02/26/11 02:14 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Back to the original question, The Fel-Pro #1105 is the 0.051" thick, 4.590" bore, 13.7cc performance head gasket. At $74 each I think the Cometic gaskets are a better deal. For Reference: The #1009 is 0.039" thick, 4.410" bore, 9.9cc The Info is from the Felpro gasket catalog: http://ecatalog.federalmogul.com/digiPub21/Felpro_Performance_and_Sport_Gasket_Catalog/index.htm The standard ROL#HG31130 is 0.045" thick, 4.505" Bore, 11.8 cc, and cost about $12 each, The ROL Performance/High Temp #HG31130HT is the same size and costs about $22 each from this place I found: http://www.prostockautoparts.com/products/1965-DODGE-CUSTOM-V8--383-Head+Gasket,+Individual.htm I don't know what the 440 source 0.051" thick head gasket is? Mr gasket offers the thinner gaskets, thicker copper gaskets, and MLS gaskets, but still in the 0.043" thickness. I found these that may be what your looking for: SCE Pro Copper Head Gaskets, 0.062" and various bore sizes are $125 pair from Summit. or Flatout Gaskets #900464520 are 0.064" thick, 4.520 diameter, 16.8cc (calculated from bore & thickness), and cost $140/pair from Summit. Here is a link to summit chrysler big block head gaskets. You can do "show all" on gasket thicknesses. It looks like the SCE gasket have the largest selection of thicker head gaskets? http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/...40/?Ns=Rank\|Asc

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936858 02/26/11 09:42 AM 02/26/11 09:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: My cranking compression was between 180 and 192 the last 2 times that I checked. These consistant numbers made diagnosing the oil burning problem difficult. My machinist thinks that the 2 cams that went bad may have led to rapid ring wear. He THINKS, that caused the rapid ring wear ??? You lost 2 cams in that motor so you threw in a 3rd to see if it would be ok ? What do your piston skirts look like ? Last edited by JohnRR; 02/26/11 09:57 AM.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: JohnRR] #936859 02/26/11 02:30 PM 02/26/11 02:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	[quoteHe THINKS, that caused the rapid ring wear ??? You lost 2 cams in that motor so you threw in a 3rd to see if it would be ok ? What do your piston skirts look like ? X2 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Von] #936860 02/26/11 03:40 PM 02/26/11 03:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	The skirts were scuffed and lightly scratched, but they cleaned up nicely by glass bead blasting and green scotch brite pads. The cylinders honed out nicely. I dont foresee oil consumption being a problem now. As stated, he found that the oil rings had lost all their tension, so oil was slipping by them, then past the worn compression rings. I dont understand the reference to putting in the 3rd cam.... The compression #s looked consistant. If testing showed unusually low #s on even one hole I would have dug deeper. I have replaced dead cams in motors before and didnt remember any problems. The '509 cam looks great still. I credit that to the use of Valvoline VR1 oil AND the Comp Cams additive. I started using the higher grade oil AFTER the 2 cams went bad and I did some research on the subject. I have built several motors in my time, but this is the first one geared toward real performance. Its also the first one with valvesprings STIFFER than stock. The first cam went bad in 2006. If this car were driven daily I'm sure that the problems would have cropped up sooner, but I drive it maybe 1000 miles per year.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: challengermike] #936861 03/02/11 05:22 AM 03/02/11 05:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Quote: cant you just back the timing down for the street and mix in alittle racegas at the track and bump it back up? I have been doing this very thing. It just sucks to be limited this way. I figured that a slight drop in squeeze would make the car more fun to drive. I've put very few miles on this car since 2004.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: JohnRR] #936862 03/02/11 06:22 AM 03/02/11 06:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,231 State of retirement 5 52savoy master
52savoy master 5 Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,231 State of retirement	How about removing all this fuss and go to E85 fuel? Seems like the thing to do instead $witching everything around and then praying for it to work. http://www.e85refueling.com/states.php?PHPSESSID=22be46d9cc75f6a306af40299ebfa161

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: 52savoy] #936863 03/08/11 04:11 AM 03/08/11 04:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I decided to go ahead with the Fel Pro 1009 gaskets that are common to the standard Full gasket set. The motor is back in the car and the TTI headers are in. I like to clean or repaint stuff before I install them, so sometimes my projects run a little longer than they would on a beater car. I'm reusing the '509 cam since the lobes were good and I kept the lifters in order. I looked back at some notes that I kept from when I FIRST built the motor in 2004. It ran like a raped ape and sounded great. I should have it running tomorrow.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936864 03/08/11 05:05 AM 03/08/11 05:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot
dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	ONE more time ...water injection THEN you can put MORE timing in it ...and if you mix some alky in the tank .. it will make MORE power.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: dOrk !] #936865 03/08/11 06:21 AM 03/08/11 06:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I remember seeing these kits on the shelves of Super Shops back in the day. How and where is the water injected? If its a "plate under the carb" system like some nitrous kits, I'm out. The distance between the air cleaner and the hood can be measured with a feeler guage. If it requires drilling a hole in the intake like a vacuum port, I'm listening........

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936866 03/08/11 08:40 AM 03/08/11 08:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I decided to go ahead with the Fel Pro 1009 gaskets that are common to the standard Full gasket set. That is not the gasket that comes in the standard full kit , it is a 8519

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936867 03/08/11 02:34 PM 03/08/11 02:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot
dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: I remember seeing these kits on the shelves of Super Shops back in the day. How and where is the water injected? If its a "plate under the carb" system like some nitrous kits, I'm out. The distance between the air cleaner and the hood can be measured with a feeler guage. If it requires drilling a hole in the intake like a vacuum port, I'm listening........ The only thing that is needed is a small line and nozzle directed into the primary side of the carb normally through the top of the air cleaner. SpearCo is the system I used(and I still have a couple of sets left!) ... but Edelbrock made one too. The GOOD systems meter the liquid THREE diff ways .... engine vaccum, engine RPM and the nozzle size. I have not done any type of tweaking lately(not in years) ... but I did back in the day. I had a gasser-dually(400 motor) ... with a camper ...towing a 32 foot trailer ...and experimented with it then. It REALLY helped with power(OF COURSE not like NOS!), helped with MPG, allowed me to back-off to mid-grade fuel AND cleaned the motor up. It is just like steam-cleaning ... just as an experiment - I swapped out a severely carboned-up spark plug for a good one .... and in 75-100 miles .. it was like new .... I used to have a search on eBay for these systems ...and some of them went for cRaZy money. So some people still use them. I am going to use one on my motorhome project ...and am going to tune the whole combo with a wide-band O2. I do not know how WI will affect that.

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: JohnRR] #936868 03/09/11 02:56 AM 03/09/11 02:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Quote: That is not the gasket that comes in the standard full kit , it is a 8519 Hmmm. What is the difference between the 2? The ones in the set are the blue perma torque. These are supposed to be .039 compressed. I was REALLY close to firing the motor today. The #5 and #7 spark plugs felt as if they were cross threading so I stopped. I need to buy a thread chaser to clean the threads. Heres the car that the motor will go into... 6519749-00000005.JPG (95 downloads)

Re: Big Block head gaskets to lower compression....? [Re: Kern Dog] #936869 03/09/11 10:17 AM 03/09/11 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Don't know the difference might have something to do wit hthe fire ring , the compressed thickness is more like .041 .

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