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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
#919658
02/03/11 02:38 PM
02/03/11 02:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
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Memphis
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A HP 440 with the heavy rods has a non symmetrical harmonic balancer.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
#919659
02/03/11 02:44 PM
02/03/11 02:44 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
I hope this doesn't sound stupid but I am trying to digest this internal/external balance issue. If the 440 truck engine has standard rods it will be internally balanced and I can use the 69 727 convertor and all? I assume I need to use the existing balancer that is on the 440? Now, if it has the H duty rods and crank and is externally balanced what if anything do I need to do in order to use the 69 trans.? I always thought the harmonic did the work no matter what crank and rods it had? How else could it be externally balanced unless weight was added to the flex plate? I am still a little confused here? I just want to avoid vibration issues with this project.
Weight is not added to the flexplate it was added to the torque convertor by the factory. B+M sells a weighted flexplate , but it's not really weighted it has a big scallop out of it OPPOSITE of where the weight would be added on the torque convertor. By using this you can use ANY NEUTRAL balance convertor you want and not worry about the balance issue.
Part of the reason the HP engines were external balanced was because of rod AND piston weight, it's not hard or costly to internal balance a big rod motor. Ignore the rods, what balancer is on the engine ?
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Post deleted by moparts
[Re: JohnRR]
#919660
02/03/11 03:46 PM
02/03/11 03:46 PM
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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
#919661
02/03/11 04:36 PM
02/03/11 04:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
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Quote:
Is the B&M flex plate supposed to make up for a converter that is built for an internally balanced motor?
yes
Quote:
For some reason I am still having trouble with this because I think all cranks are balanced by the manufacturer? At least all 383 and 440 cranks I have seen have drilled balance holes in the counterweights. I am thinking its dynamic balancing? I am no expert on this but thats always what I have assumed?
Yes, cranks can be balanced to themselves. However, we're talking about the whole reciprocating assembly of crank-pistons-rods; that's a different balance.
Consider a rim, one that's perfectly balanced. Now put a tire on it, one with a big chunk of steel stuck in the tread. Unbalanced, right? Now, put a balance weight opposite the steel to bring it back in balace as an assembly. That's what externally-balanced engines are. Balance weights are placed on harmonic damper and flywheel/torque converter (by OEM, anyway).
Quote:
I also thought that the torque converters were balanced totally separate from engine? More as an aft of the crankshaft.
Yes, converters will be balanced unto themselves, and these will usually be thin weights, about 1/2 size of a stick of gum. 1-2 per converter is common. The balance weights for an 'external-balance' converter, though, will be ~1" long and 1/4" thick, usually one each side of the drain plug.
Here's an old thread, it's on flywheels, but there might be a nugget or 2 of info that will help you.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=
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Post deleted by moparts
[Re: Fury Fan]
#919662
02/03/11 05:01 PM
02/03/11 05:01 PM
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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
#919663
02/03/11 05:26 PM
02/03/11 05:26 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Now I am getting it! I will need to use the balancer and converter that are currently on this 440 (if it is externally balanced) correct? If internally balanced I can use the 69 converter. Once again I am no expert on this subject but when they balance the rotating assy. ie: rods, pistons don't they simply match the weights of these internal so they are all exactly the same? Isn't this achieved by removing material from the rods and pistons? I would think Chrysler would have done this to the HP and Six Packs and not the standard engines? Seem backwards to me?
I would use the 69 convertor and get a B+M flexplate instead of using a convetor SPECED for a MOTORHOME and it's camshaft... this is all ASSuMEing it's an externally balanced engine .
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Post deleted by moparts
[Re: JohnRR]
#919664
02/03/11 05:43 PM
02/03/11 05:43 PM
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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
#919665
02/04/11 12:09 PM
02/04/11 12:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,684
Des Moines IA
Soopernaut
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They didn't put 440s in trucks in 1970. Are you positive it is a 440, and if it is, are you positive it is original to the vehicle. The 413 was a common large truck/motorhome engine.
Then again anything is possible so it could be an original 440.
1970 Dodge d100/eventually going on a 77 D100 frame
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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
[Re: Soopernaut]
#919666
02/04/11 12:55 PM
02/04/11 12:55 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
They didn't put 440s in trucks in 1970. Are you positive it is a 440, and if it is, are you positive it is original to the vehicle. The 413 was a common large truck/motorhome engine.
Then again anything is possible so it could be an original 440.
Very good point ...
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Post deleted by moparts
[Re: JohnRR]
#919667
02/04/11 02:21 PM
02/04/11 02:21 PM
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Last edited by B3coupe; 02/04/11 02:25 PM.
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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
#919668
02/04/11 02:33 PM
02/04/11 02:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
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Someone will correct me if I'm wrong (where's JohnRR   ) but I believe 7T refers to a 77 engine, T for truck, E for cast crank. Regardelss, a 69 block would be E440. Where in Illinois are you? If you are able to drive to Indianapolis, I might be able to hook you up with a near-complete 70 440 350hp (missing the carb) with 80k miles. Been sitting loose in my garage for 3-4 years, not sure if I'll ever use it or what to do with it. I'd sell it for the right price, of course, but between the $400 bare-block ads on here and the guys that say they buy whole running 440s for $200, I'm not sure what price to put on it. It's been a low priority so I just squirt the cylinders and spin it periodically. 
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Re: 70 440 car vs truck motor
[Re: Fury Fan]
#919669
02/04/11 05:08 PM
02/04/11 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong (where's JohnRR ) but I believe 7T refers to a 77 engine, T for truck, E for cast crank. Regardelss, a 69 block would be E440.
Yes that is correct , 77 440 with a cast crank,
Now you know how I feel with those chomping at the bit to correct something I post that is incorrect, which I appreciate because I don't want to give out incorrect info ...
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