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Keisler questions... AGAIN... #897394
01/06/11 08:10 AM
01/06/11 08:10 AM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Has anyone tried the new Keisler 'RS5' kit yet? Again, i see it highlighted on their site, but like last time i was interested (read: money in hand) in buying something it was not available yet and to this day i'm not even sure it ever was (that was the T45 kit).

Long story short, i plan on driving my Challenger this year, and i'm selling my Charger in the spring to finance it. I already have the complete 4-spd set-up for it. Now a guy wants to give me money for it and RIGHT NOW... i could use that money. I'm not going to sell off my kit for 2K if i've got to pony up 4K to replace it in a few months.

This new RS5 kit is supposed to be as little as $2300, and fit with less hassle than the Tremec kit. I also like the better high-RPM characteristics the new kit has, as my Challenger will see over 6000RPM often.

Strange enough, the search turned up nothing. Is no one talking about Keisler anymore or something...???

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897395
01/06/11 08:22 AM
01/06/11 08:22 AM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Call Jeff at Keisler,...ext 210 if I recall correctly, Jeff's very accurate as to production schedules and releases, personally I'd go with a TKO 600/650, they are still avaliable from Keisler, even though his new product line is centered around the T-45 BW design

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897396
01/06/11 10:59 AM
01/06/11 10:59 AM
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Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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Quote:

Strange enough, the search turned up nothing. Is no one talking about Keisler anymore or something...???




Could have something to do with this:

Passon 5 Speed

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #897397
01/06/11 11:12 AM
01/06/11 11:12 AM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:


Quote:

Strange enough, the search turned up nothing. Is no one talking about Keisler anymore or something...???




Could have something to do with this:

Passon 5 Speed




What he said.

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #897398
01/06/11 11:18 AM
01/06/11 11:18 AM
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Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Dayclona, last i checked, the cheapest Keisler kit using a Tremec (the 500 kit?) was over $4000. That was a quote right from them. The one i'm interested in is supposedly under, well under $3000. If i cant get something 5-spd for under $3000 i'll have to buy a buddy's 18-spline A833 and start scraping up parts again...

Scott, that Passon looks nice. Real nice. I'd buy it... if i could. But anything near, let alone over $4000 will blow the budget. I just need to get this thing driving with a tranny (hopefully a 5 or 6-spd) that wont blow up behind a low-buck but somewhat hairy 383 (in a light E-body that will see no track use).

Unless the price ov 72 Chargers jumps a couple grand in the next few months... (ahem...)

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897399
01/06/11 04:55 PM
01/06/11 04:55 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Like I said call Jeff at Keisler, he'll know the release dates of your application of the T45RS 5spd set-ups, they'll start out at around $1600 transmission only, on up to $3K depending on your application, and parts/options required, as well as torque level desired,...the 68-70 B body application, to my knowledge is done, call to check on the E body applications availability

Mike

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: DAYCLONA] #897400
01/07/11 08:44 AM
01/07/11 08:44 AM
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Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

Like I said call Jeff at Keisler, he'll know the release dates of your application of the T45RS 5spd set-ups, they'll start out at around $1600 transmission only, on up to $3K depending on your application, and parts/options required, as well as torque level desired,...the 68-70 B body application, to my knowledge is done, call to check on the E body applications availability

Mike




Thanks. I'll give him a call next time i get a chance. I need the full kit, but my car is already a stick car (3spd), so i dont need the conversion parts.

This is kind ov a temp fix anyways, as all my super big block plans just fell through permanently. I just need something that will survive a junkyard-nasty 383 or 400 (stock stroke) in a light-ish road car.

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897401
01/07/11 09:31 AM
01/07/11 09:31 AM
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On the open road
Hrtbkr Offline
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This may be off topic, but here's a couple of cheaper alternatives...
Chrysler had an overdrive transmission (three speed with fourth being OD)in the 70s. It looks just like an A-833 four speed, but has an aluminum case. It bolts right in with a minor mod to the trans and no mods to the car. You may have to find the correct bell housing. The gear spacing is strange though-it has a low first gear and then a big jump to second. Imagine skipping second on a normal four speed.
Another possible solution is the four speed OD gear set from Passon, which solves the "big jump" problem.
Good luck


While outside on the turnpike They got this new hit tune Where thrills become as cheap as gas And gas as cheap as thrills
Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897402
01/07/11 09:34 AM
01/07/11 09:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Like I said call Jeff at Keisler, he'll know the release dates of your application of the T45RS 5spd set-ups, they'll start out at around $1600 transmission only, on up to $3K depending on your application, and parts/options required, as well as torque level desired,...the 68-70 B body application, to my knowledge is done, call to check on the E body applications availability

Mike




Thanks. I'll give him a call next time i get a chance. I need the full kit, but my car is already a stick car (3spd), so i dont need the conversion parts.

This is kind ov a temp fix anyways, as all my super big block plans just fell through permanently. I just need something that will survive a junkyard-nasty 383 or 400 (stock stroke) in a light-ish road car.




then iron case A833OD, just don't go full throttle in OD


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: patrick] #897403
01/07/11 11:34 AM
01/07/11 11:34 AM
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Pale_Roader Offline OP
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I had one ov those truck OD 833's, a nice clean low-miler. I ended up selling it after reading many posts here on how weak they are. Also, i've been in a car that had one, a Demon with a pretty hot 340... i didn't like it, at all. That gear spread would drive me nuts in a week. Sure, you could swap the guts into an iron case, but half the draw IS that aluminum case... i like the weight savings. Thats also the draw with a 5spd... they're lighter. I need to buy a new driveshaft anyways.

As for the Passon 4spd gears, thats still a 4-spd. If i can only have four, i'll stick with simple and it'll be a stock hemi unit with the high gears out back.

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897404
01/07/11 01:19 PM
01/07/11 01:19 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:


I had one ov those truck OD 833's, a nice clean low-miler. I ended up selling it after reading many posts here on how weak they are. Also, i've been in a car that had one, a Demon with a pretty hot 340... i didn't like it, at all. That gear spread would drive me nuts in a week. Sure, you could swap the guts into an iron case, but half the draw IS that aluminum case... i like the weight savings. Thats also the draw with a 5spd... they're lighter. I need to buy a new driveshaft anyways.

As for the Passon 4spd gears, thats still a 4-spd. If i can only have four, i'll stick with simple and it'll be a stock hemi unit with the high gears out back.




Passon is just releasing a 5 speed that is a direct bolt in in place of the A833 , DIRECT ...

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897405
01/07/11 02:34 PM
01/07/11 02:34 PM
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Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Quote:


I had one ov those truck OD 833's, a nice clean low-miler. I ended up selling it after reading many posts here on how weak they are. Also, i've been in a car that had one, a Demon with a pretty hot 340... i didn't like it, at all. That gear spread would drive me nuts in a week. Sure, you could swap the guts into an iron case, but half the draw IS that aluminum case... i like the weight savings. Thats also the draw with a 5spd... they're lighter. I need to buy a new driveshaft anyways.

As for the Passon 4spd gears, thats still a 4-spd. If i can only have four, i'll stick with simple and it'll be a stock hemi unit with the high gears out back.




the A833OD in my '76 duster is original to the car, and all iron....

yes they are weaker, but people have run them behind 440's without a problem as long as they aren't too built, or as long as they don't hook super great (i.e. fine on street tires, but may break the output shaft with drag slicks)

I don't feel the ratios are super wide (3.09, 1.67, 1, .73), my duster handles them fine. biggest issue is designing your engine for a wide powerband, which would probably mean moderate .050 duration & wider LSA to knock down peak torque and extend the powerband higher. I'm thinking a 0 deck 383, with milled closed chambered heads, and a cam like a comp XE275HL ground on a 112LSA, installed at 108 would work very well with that gear spread.

or for ~$1500 IIRC jamie passon has a gearset for an A833 that is as strong/stronger than the original 18 spline hemi gearset, but uses the same principle as the A833 OD by swapping 3 & 4. IIRC first is ~2.80ish, and OD is .8.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: patrick] #897406
01/07/11 04:53 PM
01/07/11 04:53 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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You'll probably have to call up keisler for info about their new trans offering. I don't think they have pricing for it on their website yet.

The factory 833OD, the Tremec TKO, the Passon 4sp OD gearset and the Passon 5-sp are basically your other alternatives. If you don't like those choices you could always do a low first gear, Non-overdrive 833. One with the 3.09, 1.92, 1.40, 1.0 gearing. The lower first gear will get you out of the hole faster so you could run a numerically lower rear gear and not do too bad in the acceleration department and avoid those gear spreads you say you hate. A 3.09 first gear 833 with a 2.94 rear gear would equal out to pretty close to a 2.47 first gear 833 with a 3.7 rear gear.

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #897407
01/07/11 08:52 PM
01/07/11 08:52 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Quote:

You'll probably have to call up keisler for info about their new trans offering. I don't think they have pricing for it on their website yet.







The T45RS is offered in 3 torque levels, IIRC 350, 450, and 600 ftlbs, price for transmission only, and respectively in relation to torque level $1395, $1495, and $1650 IIRC,....depending on what you require in the way of bellhousings, clutch set-ups, pedals, shifters, a hyd TOB upgrade, etc, etc, the price can rise from a minimum of $1400 to a maximum of $3-$3500 for a transmission and conversion kit

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: DAYCLONA] #897408
01/08/11 09:57 AM
01/08/11 09:57 AM
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Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

The T45RS is offered in 3 torque levels, IIRC 350, 450, and 600 ftlbs, price for transmission only, and respectively in relation to torque level $1395, $1495, and $1650 IIRC,....depending on what you require in the way of bellhousings, clutch set-ups, pedals, shifters, a hyd TOB upgrade, etc, etc, the price can rise from a minimum of $1400 to a maximum of $3-$3500 for a transmission and conversion kit




I could probably get away with the weakest one, or at most need the middle one. No 440, no strokers, no boost and no NOS in this car... just RPM on the open road.

As for the price, i'll probably be somewhere in the middle... I need the conversion, but only a manual 3spd to a manual 5spd conversion. Should be $2500 or less...???

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #897409
01/08/11 10:06 AM
01/08/11 10:06 AM
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Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

If you don't like those choices you could always do a low first gear, Non-overdrive 833. One with the 3.09, 1.92, 1.40, 1.0 gearing. The lower first gear will get you out of the hole faster so you could run a numerically lower rear gear and not do too bad in the acceleration department and avoid those gear spreads you say you hate. A 3.09 first gear 833 with a 2.94 rear gear would equal out to pretty close to a 2.47 first gear 833 with a 3.7 rear gear.




That would be interesting, i thought about that one, but its kind ov a half-measure. Same idea with that custom gearset that Patrick mentioned. I'll either get some kind ov 5-spd or just let my stock 4-spd drive me nuts with the highway gears until i break down and get a real job...

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: JohnRR] #897410
01/08/11 10:16 AM
01/08/11 10:16 AM
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Quote:


Passon is just releasing a 5 speed that is a direct bolt in in place of the A833 , DIRECT ...




Oh i've been following that thread too...

I wish i wish... I think ov all the 5-speed options that one wins hands down. I like the look, the 'stockness', the lack ov hack (not that i care about hacking my car), the gears, the whole Passon part, and the weight as well. My A833 sure dont weigh 100lbs...

But i still have to buy an engine too, and have to either find a nice running engine, or gob one up from my veritable pile o parts. I have suspension to buy still, brakes, and some welding to do... my $6-7000 total budget aint gonna go far... $4300 seems well fair for that transmission... but i couldn't go near it.

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897411
01/08/11 12:48 PM
01/08/11 12:48 PM
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ThermoQuad Offline
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Patience will reward you...and your wallet.

Rather than beat yourself up with the fitment/quality/customer service issues that come with the aftermarket products at an extra cost and aggravation to you the customer...Jamie Passon will have at least one nicely used aluminum 4 speed overdrive for sale when we swap the new DIRECT FIT 855 into my pos E body. I am sure there will be other trade in's as well.

For the type of driving you do over there you require no compromises in transmission fitment and reliability.
Can you say pinion angles?? .

Perhaps a conversation with Jamie about a nicely used aluminum 4 speed overdrive is in order. Compromised hardware and high speed do not go together well.

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: ThermoQuad] #897412
01/09/11 06:23 AM
01/09/11 06:23 AM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

Patience will reward you...and your wallet.

Rather than beat yourself up with the fitment/quality/customer service issues that come with the aftermarket products at an extra cost and aggravation to you the customer...Jamie Passon will have at least one nicely used aluminum 4 speed overdrive for sale when we swap the new DIRECT FIT 855 into my pos E body. I am sure there will be other trade in's as well.

For the type of driving you do over there you require no compromises in transmission fitment and reliability.
Can you say pinion angles?? .

Perhaps a conversation with Jamie about a nicely used aluminum 4 speed overdrive is in order. Compromised hardware and high speed do not go together well.




Yeah i do worry about that a bit... but i am a bit ov a gambler. I still dont want a 4 speed OD though, i like the 5 speed idea. Hell, what i really want, and have always wanted is a T56.

But now you guys have got me worried about this pinion angle thing... Have people actually had problems with the Keisler kits because ov this?

Re: Keisler questions... AGAIN... [Re: Pale_Roader] #897413
01/09/11 03:10 PM
01/09/11 03:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Hell, what i really want, and have always wanted is a T56.





What's stopping you? Used T56's don't go for that much money. You will have to scrape together all the conversion parts but it could be done.

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