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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: 440challenger]
#897325
01/06/11 02:10 PM
01/06/11 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,941
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,941
Holly/MI
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Have you tried "blipping the throttle" before trying to put it into 2nd?
The reason I ask, is the heavier gear oil doesn't allow the 2 different gear speeds to mesh as easily as ATF will.
80/90 is too heavy. ATF is basically 5wt oil. I use a blend of 30wt and 3wt. Shifts like a knife through butter. Chrysler actually recommended ATF in the FSM in the 70's.
What you can't see..........is the "cones" that are internal to the synchros and they have the all important job of creating a necessary interference to slow the gear speeds to match. If they are shiny, they are too smooth. Synchro's actually have a machined, finely grooved, surface to work with the mating cones and slow the gears. Thicker oil is counter productive in concept to what they are trying to do.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: 440challenger]
#897326
01/06/11 02:38 PM
01/06/11 02:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Jensen Beach, Florida
pressureangle
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Jensen Beach, Florida
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If it upshifts good but downshifts poorly, either your synchros are worn or you need to change the type/weight of oil. On an upshift, the engine slows to meet the transmission speed. On a downshift, the synchro has to spin up the clutch disc to meet the gear speed which is a lot more work, and it sounds like you're caught between the two. I'd suggest draining your oil (keep it for something else, like the rear end) and adding plain ol' 75w90 GL4 dinosaur poop. That will tell the condition of your synchros. Blipping the throttle of course lessens the load on the synchro and shortens wait time.
Why do I torture myself so?
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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: pressureangle]
#897330
01/10/11 06:59 PM
01/10/11 06:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,503
NJ
440challenger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,503
NJ
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Ok so i installed atf in the trans this afternoon. Made no difference . Maybe a little smoother shifts, but still grind when going into 2nd sometimes and can not get it to downshift into 2nd. It does downshift into 2nd gear at very slow speeds and i think i got it to go one time out of quite a few by free reving the motor.
I also have a slight vibration from the clutch pedal..is that normal?
Last edited by 440challenger; 01/10/11 07:01 PM.
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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: 440challenger]
#897331
01/10/11 07:13 PM
01/10/11 07:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,062
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,062
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Ok so i installed atf in the trans this afternoon. Made no difference . Maybe a little smoother shifts, but still grind when going into 2nd sometimes and can not get it to downshift into 2nd. It does downshift into 2nd gear at very slow speeds and i think i got it to go one time out of quite a few by free reving the motor.
I also have a slight vibration from the clutch pedal..is that normal?
Is the shifter adjusted properly ? If so and the lighter oil didn't fix it you need to open it up and see what is wrong.
Even though the factory filled the trans with ATF they later changed that recommendation , ATF is a cold climate fill fluid , but to me still too light .
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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: 440challenger]
#897333
01/10/11 10:43 PM
01/10/11 10:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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tear it apart,, install new syncros and a small parts kit..keep grinding it and you will need a new second gear and even a complete sycro assy....
I am truckless..
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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: RapidRobert]
#897336
01/11/11 11:26 AM
01/11/11 11:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,941
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,941
Holly/MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I use a blend of 30wt and 3wt. Shifts like a knife through butter.
Dean What weight is the 2nd one
Sorry, that was a typo. I meant a combination of 30wt and 5wt(ATF).
EDIT: ALSO, for the OP, if you haven't check your clutch "Z-bar" linkage and bushings yet, not sure if it was discussed earlier, now would be a good time. Those little plastic, half-round, bushings tend to split and fall out. This can give you less than optimum clutch disc disengagement.
Or, maybe the 2nd gear has just been pounded (powershift) a few times too many.
A trans I went through lately had fresh synchro's but "crunched" powershifting into 2nd & 3rd. Tore into it and the little teeth that are on the gears behind the synchro's were rounded, not pointy. Judging by the mismatched bolts holding the side cover on, someone had gone through it but was too cheap to buy new gears. I did, but not cheap for the mid 70's 833 since they don't repro those yet (NOS only).
Last edited by Dean_Kuzluzski; 01/11/11 11:40 AM.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: 440challenger]
#897337
01/11/11 02:12 PM
01/11/11 02:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 263
Switzerland, Europe
Swiss_Robert
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 263
Switzerland, Europe
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Well, if it shifts properly from gear 2 to 1 but not from 3 to 2 than there is something wrong with the gear 2 synchro ring. How old is that transmission? I think that worn synchro rings of gear 2 is a very common case.
If linkage is odd, you would have problems to change from gear 3 to 2 before it's grinding. There is a lock to prevent engaging gear 2 as long as gear 3 (or 4) is in.
How about "slipping out" gear 2 when car is decelerating (hill down and throttle closed)?
I strongly recommend to consult the guys from brewers performance - they seem to be the gurus for me...
After all these years having a 440 I realized that this means having an attitude... and a budget.
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Re: 4speed a833 wont downshift into 2nd gear
[Re: 440challenger]
#897341
01/12/11 10:45 AM
01/12/11 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
64dodge572
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
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Quote:
All my linkage ,shifter ,bushings ,fly wheel.clucth etc. the whole setup soup to nuts is new. I bought a lot from brewers. It does not pop out of gear. Trans is unknown ... I believe its a 1968 year. Can anyone reccomend a nice repair manual to take this trans apart?
Nick-
Get your hands on a factory service manual. 64-mid 70's will work. There are differences in parts but the procedures stay the same. If you get stuck you can always give me a call. 
Dan
Brewers Performance Inc. 4-speed transmission and parts specialists PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259 FAX 937-947-4419 www.brewersperformance.com
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