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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#889184
12/28/10 08:33 AM
12/28/10 08:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
JoesMopar
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I have to chime in here for myself.
I'm strictly against making fake tags and such. But the comments like "what do you want it for unless you want to sell it" are just BS.
I have a '77 Monaco cop car, has the VIN, door tag, emissions tag, etc all in place and the sequential number matches the radiator support, block, etc. The fender tags are missing and so is the buildsheet (though I haven't looked hard for it), is it wrong for me to not want them just for my own amusement? I know what's on the car, is it not ok to add the codes that you know are on the car? Even if you add the minimum that must be on the car, I just want to see something screwed in there, especially the "special handling" tag that's missing.
Sure, if you throw in a line that has an obvious giveaway that your tag is "just for fun", then sure.
How many guys are going to stop at that point? When a 100K payday is on the line, many claiming to be "wearing a white hat" will put on a black one real quick. To think the temptation isn't going to overpower integrity for the right car is pretty naive to say the least. 
Well I think some of you guys need to speak for yourselves then. I've never thought about deception as much as what's going on in this thread. But when I have a car that I know what it is, I think I can get a tag made with the BARE MINIMUM that MUST be on the car for it to even exist, not including the VON and things I can't find real info on etc. Just something that has enough REAL info on it for me to not see a few uncolored rectangles where the original ones were once screwed in (Special Handling, VIN, E86 etc). If that pisses some of you off, then so be it, none of my cars are for sale anyway.
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#889186
12/28/10 08:55 AM
12/28/10 08:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 384
under the hood
A47
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 384
under the hood
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wern't there a black Hemi cuda caught up in a house Garage fire also some time ago !! & it was rebodyd , think that was Galen inspected also , not sure if it was a 70 or 71
Last edited by A47; 12/28/10 08:57 AM.
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: ECS]
#889187
12/28/10 09:26 AM
12/28/10 09:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,468
Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,468
Answering the call of the wild
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ECS Dave-I can tell you who Barry Washington is... Barry Washington [along with Galen Govier] will be the recipient of about 300 SIAC applications from the 80's of hemi and six pak E bodies. Since you were not around in 1982...SIAC was the special interest auto club for challengers and cudas. Long before moparts, the internet and a lot of you people, when these old cars were just used cars and transportation like 4 door Valiants These are hand written [some typed] applications, many with complete information including the fender tags. OMG... I am sure based on the information on these sheets I could track down many of these cars -some which have not seen the light of day in 28 years - and have a ball being a flipper. Instead they are going to where they can do the most good and not be used to further some ones greed. These SIAC applications can't be reproduced and only Barry and Galen will know if a SIAC application exists for a car of particular interest.These hand written some typed documents were done long before perfectly faked BC sheets and fender tags were around and will provide rock solid evidence of a cars past history. Unfortunately we only have a slice of the big pie. Some of the more interesting applications will be posted up here before I hit the copier and send them to their new home. I will be redacting the SO's on any fender tags posted other than well known cars like the one depicted. I don't see the need to come on here and berate Barry. Barry provides a not for profit service that no one else offers and is not reproducing holy grail of the mopar world documentation that cannot be identified as such for whatever intent. People in glass houses should not throw stones.   
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: A47]
#889189
12/28/10 09:35 AM
12/28/10 09:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
superbyrd
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 390
kentucky
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ah,the people who out themselves for the bulls%@t they sling.
the truth of the matter is. if you are wanting any documentaion duplicated,repopped,or faked for your car,you are only doing it to try and increase the "value" of that car for selling it to someone else and making more money.
there is no other reason.
you can't convince me or anyone else that you only want any fake/duplicated documentation done,so you can sit in your tighty-whities,scratching your sack,staring at it on the coffee table,and it just making you feel all happy and at total peace.
your mommy/GF/wife/grandma has accepted you as a liar,the rest of us don't care to.
and if you are a producer of any such,you are just as shady as the buyers of it.
if it's your car,and you like it and enjoy it,why do you care if things like documentation are missing???? drive it,show it,enjoy it.
until you start crying/whining/stomping your feet wanting to sell it for more money,or rip someone off,then,obviously,there are some folks out there that will help you out.......
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: superbyrd]
#889190
12/28/10 10:58 AM
12/28/10 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
71rm23
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: quick77rt ]
#889191
12/28/10 11:35 AM
12/28/10 11:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
Who are you anyway?...
I'm the guy who can't seem to get the question answered:
Who in this Hobby has REAL authority (not perceived) to tell ANYONE else how they should conduct their affairs or feel about their cars? You can try and deflect the question/subject matter all you want! You are probably one of the MANY disgruntled people (that I turned down) who called trying to get one of those FAKE build-sheets. The thing I will never know is if you were one of the Hypocrites who bashed me on the forum and then contacted me behind the scenes to "secretly" get one! That was quite the joke. I had AT LEAST 12 people who did everything but BEG to have one made. Keep in mind that they were having it done for all the "right" reasons. They were not like all the other "crooks" who wanted to have them made just to trick or scam the Hobby! 
The truth is, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about ANYTHING I do. If I decide to offer a complimentary build-sheet with every item we sell, then I will do just that. Unlike many of the sheep that are out there, I don't feel the need to cower down to anyone Else's personal views or opinions.  Some of you should read the story THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES. It will be reassuring to know that this type of weak personality flaw is nothing new!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: scatpacktom]
#889194
12/28/10 12:53 PM
12/28/10 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,527
minnesota
Kirby
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,527
minnesota
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Quote:
Why steal a fender tag? What good is it to anyone? Has anyone really had one stolen at a show?
3 years ago at the Nats, I left the hood up on my FY4/gator top T/A. When I came back- I noticed one of the screws was missing. Hood down the rest of the show, and I highly doubt it vibrated out. That would have really sucked as I have no build sheet for it. 
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: jeff968]
#889195
12/28/10 01:07 PM
12/28/10 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
I REALLY don't see why it's such a BIG deal if somebody wants to re-create their tag as long as they are up-front about it.
Because eventually the car is sold, the seller who made the change may be up front about it but as the car is resold someone forgets to be up front and the next thing you know the "updated" tag becomes "gospel".
Barry is a great guy who has nothing but the best intentions for our hobby. I applaud his efforts.
Well that would be on the new owner to disclose the details of the car. It's not like 95% of these cars haven't had somekind of tweaking over the last 40+ years. If somebody has a ton of money in his car why can't he make a tag up if he/she thinks it "completes" the build. For some random dude to bash the OP about a TAG is...well being an ashhat. If I had a guy come of of the blue, no matter his Mopar status and start telling me I was doing something illegal I'd tell him to go pound sand.
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#889196
12/28/10 01:16 PM
12/28/10 01:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
I REALLY don't see why it's such a BIG deal if somebody wants to re-create their tag
See what is happening here Jeff? Many of these fine upstanding folks will continue to offer nothing more than their opinions and feelings about the subject matter. I am still waiting to hear from what authority these guys are operating under! You also get the intelligent comments from people who think that the "crooks" should have come to ECS to facilitate their criminal actions. Unlike the "self proclaimed" authorities mentioned here, ECS has to comply (and answer to on a quarterly basis) the DMV, the DOT, the NICB, the Automobile Manufacturers and the legal councils to the major Insurance Companies. We don't make the rules....THEY DO!!!! WE SIMPLY FOLLOW THOSE RULES!!!
I couldn't begin to count the stories about how these expert "overseers" told individuals NOT to purchase a vehicle because of some trumped up reason. The funny thing is that these well meaning "experts" did this so THEY could buy the car or let their friends in on the deal! Isn't that the American Dream? Set up a bunch of bogus rules that are not worth the paper they are written on and then find a target audience dumb enough to allow this "Power" to enforce those imaginary guidelines. Having to call someone else to see if they think you should or should not buy a car is a joke! These people don't have your best interest when it comes to this stuff! It is all about them being the big-shots! (These comments are NOT pertaining to Barry.) They don't even personally know who most of you are! Who is going to be better to you than YOURSELF?!? Do your homework! Don't let anyone tell you what is or isn't important/valuable based on their skewed agenda and opinions!
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: Kirby]
#889197
12/28/10 01:36 PM
12/28/10 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Why steal a fender tag? What good is it to anyone? Has anyone really had one stolen at a show?
3 years ago at the Nats, I left the hood up on my FY4/gator top T/A. When I came back- I noticed one of the screws was missing. Hood down the rest of the show, and I highly doubt it vibrated out. That would have really sucked as I have no build sheet for it.
Have you take a hi res picture of the tag? I have a nice one of the tag from my bee and I'll be taking one of the Dart along with a pencil rubbing .
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#889198
12/28/10 01:39 PM
12/28/10 01:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I REALLY don't see why it's such a BIG deal if somebody wants to re-create their tag as long as they are up-front about it.
Because eventually the car is sold, the seller who made the change may be up front about it but as the car is resold someone forgets to be up front and the next thing you know the "updated" tag becomes "gospel".
Barry is a great guy who has nothing but the best intentions for our hobby. I applaud his efforts.
Well that would be on the new owner to disclose the details of the car. It's not like 95% of these cars haven't had somekind of tweaking over the last 40+ years. If somebody has a ton of money in his car why can't he make a tag up if he/she thinks it "completes" the build. For some random dude to bash the OP about a TAG is...well being an ashhat. If I had a guy come of of the blue, no matter his Mopar status and start telling me I was doing something illegal I'd tell him to go pound sand.
I thought you would tell them to build a 440 and use a Holley 750 ? 
Back to the topic , if someone didn't do something shady to begin with you wouldn't have to rely on someone else to do the right thing .
I think what Barry does is good for the hobby as a whole, go back and read the link about Harley P. from NY with the FAKED Hemi 'cuda , he sent me PM's very upset about a member having the original door label from his 'cuda as his sig picture a number of years back ( I had it as my sig pic also) , I still have the PM ...
here it is ...
Quote:
Subject : I find it very offencive (sic)
Mr John,on the thread that says, this a pole on who likes 68 coronet r/t's 68 super bee's
one of the members has for his avitar some ones door vin,dash vin..(69 six pack) i beilve is the screen name..its just the fact that its not his or anyones business wheither the cars a fake or re vined etc.i think he or anyone onthe this board has a right descriminating towards someone elses car no matter what the case mabe..i really find it offencive that he's allowed to descriminate or parade it all over the board,an not have any single one of the moderators addressed this issue with this gentalmen.
i want it removed immediately.
best regards, Harley Pappas
Last edited by JohnRR; 12/28/10 01:49 PM.
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#889202
12/28/10 02:17 PM
12/28/10 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,343
SE PA.
QuickBpBp
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,343
SE PA.
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Quote:
This thread let us know that Dave's cars are suspect now. He doesn't need any "authority" to let him do as he damn well pleases. Make fake stuff? Not a problem if that is what he wants to do. 
We all know that he, nor anybody else, would ever lie to the DMV, etc when they come calling. That has never been done before, right? 
Wow I can't believe the directions this thread is going...
I happen to believe the the part Dave states about these "experts" making up Bogus things tainting cars to scare the guy who actually found the rare beast for his buddies or for some nice profit for himself...I have heard this goes on alot. If you find something rare educate yourself if you want to complete the deal....
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Re: Fake fender tags
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#889203
12/28/10 02:19 PM
12/28/10 02:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
This thread let us know that Dave's cars are suspect now. He doesn't need any "authority" to let him do as he damn well pleases. Make fake stuff? Not a problem if that is what he wants to do.
We all know that he, nor anybody else, would ever lie to the DMV, etc when they come calling. That has never been done before, right?
Lets just get this out of the way so we can get back to the question I asked earlier. My cars all started out as Ford Pintos that I have re-bodied and got fake titles for. All the above mentioned firms are in cahoots to lie and steal from anyone they come in contact with. We are all just a bunch of lying cheats!
Once again.....by whose delegated authority are Galen and Barry commissioned to fabricate "laws" which are accepted as the guidelines and regulations for the Hobby?
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