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max overbore on a 72 400 block #873190
12/06/10 09:01 PM
12/06/10 09:01 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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sonic checking showed i have a good standard bore 400 block(.369top,.374middle,.376bottom). all bores read the same. how many thou needs to be left in cylinder wall after being bored as a minumum? thinking about boring.060 to clean up enough,but would like some left for future use. thanks

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873191
12/06/10 09:10 PM
12/06/10 09:10 PM
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MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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id start with .040 over pistons, then have 40-60 room later. ive put .30 over boring cutters in 400 blocks that were so out of wack it would not hit all the way around the bore. fill it with block filler only up to soft plug bottoms only and bore away. if it wont clean up at 40 id get another block, or if you have the 60 over pistons now go with that block and some filler.


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: hemigod426] #873192
12/06/10 09:23 PM
12/06/10 09:23 PM
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ok,but whats the minimum allowable thickness? the 400 lost a rod and damaged one cylinder. the guy that checked it sugested having it sleeved. it does'nt look that bad to me,just beat up on the bottom of the cylinder. i can't see with the naked eye,but he said their where some holes in the cylinder wall only seen with the magni flux. i thought maybe a .060 over bore would be enough to clean this up.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873193
12/06/10 09:34 PM
12/06/10 09:34 PM
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UK
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602heavy Offline
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They appear to be pretty good #s , IIRC .250 thrust side is good...............gotta take advantage here , take her out .090" with a 4.5 crank , 554 CUBES.

Last edited by 602heavy; 12/06/10 09:37 PM.
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: 602heavy] #873194
12/06/10 10:07 PM
12/06/10 10:07 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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so .250 thrust side is the minumum? if so that leaves me .119 max. at that rate i could go .060 no problem.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873195
12/06/10 10:11 PM
12/06/10 10:11 PM
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ahy Offline
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If you need the .060 to get clean up go for it. Otherwise, I'd go minimum. I had a stock 400 clean up at .020 over and that's what I ran. Even though thickness sounds OK, thicker is always better if/when you need to freshen it later. Plus stiff cylinder walls help power.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: ahy] #873196
12/06/10 10:17 PM
12/06/10 10:17 PM
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Michigan
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I've seen a lot less than .250 in the major thrust without any trouble. Those sonic numbers seem crazy good to me.


'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: ahy] #873197
12/06/10 10:17 PM
12/06/10 10:17 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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only lookin to build a 499/505. the 4.375 bore seems to be the best for off shelf piston selection and the 4.150 stroke would be easier on thrust side. should last a long time with 6500 shift points.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873198
12/06/10 10:25 PM
12/06/10 10:25 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Quote:

sonic checking showed i have a good standard bore 400 block(.369top,.374middle,.376bottom). all bores read the same. how many thou needs to be left in cylinder wall after being bored as a minumum? thinking about boring.060 to clean up enough,but would like some left for future use. thanks


That is a exceptional block The best 400 block I've seen(12 to 15 only) had no more than .250 thick in the major thrust side and then had less than .190 on the minor thrust sides, some as thin as .120 If you decide to sleeve the bad cylinder in your old block ask the shop to use a ductile iron sleeve, have them install it before doing any other work and then pressure test the block on the side that has the sleeve before doing any thing else to the block Don't ask why I'm suggesting that If your machine shop does not know how to install a sleeve in a block without distorting the cylinder walls next to the sleeved cylinder have them bore it to the next oversize you can get piston rings for after installing the new sleeve


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873199
12/06/10 10:30 PM
12/06/10 10:30 PM
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Quote:

the 4.150 stroke would be easier on thrust side. should last a long time




With those numbers i'd have no worries going 4.750" stroke using a tiny rod. .....0.250 thrust (pas side) is not considered the 'minimum' , some blocks out there are considered good @ .190 , you have a very good block sitting there regards cylinder wall thickness , saddle area may be something else to look at.

Last edited by 602heavy; 12/06/10 10:31 PM.
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873200
12/06/10 11:18 PM
12/06/10 11:18 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Id be very suspect of those numbers. Especially when you state all bores the Same

Whats the non thrust sides measure .020 Idont mean to rain on your parade but something doesnt seem right. Id hate for you to proceed with a build if the numbers might not be correct. mike

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: Sport440] #873201
12/07/10 12:11 AM
12/07/10 12:11 AM
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its either the same or he only measured the thrust side,but what would it matter. would'nt the thrust side be more important anyway?

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873202
12/07/10 12:17 AM
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cylinder 1 is the same as cylinder 2 and 3 is same as 4, 5 same as 6 and 7 same as 8. 1,3,5,7 have different numbers,but each matches the bore on opposite side of block.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873203
12/07/10 12:32 AM
12/07/10 12:32 AM
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Quote:

ok,but whats the minimum allowable thickness? the 400 lost a rod and damaged one cylinder. the guy that checked it sugested having it sleeved. it does'nt look that bad to me,just beat up on the bottom of the cylinder. i can't see with the naked eye,but he said their where some holes in the cylinder wall only seen with the magni flux. i thought maybe a .060 over bore would be enough to clean this up.


after reading that, id make sure not cracked in main webbing. and when you say holes in bottom cylinder, id have it pressure tested to make sure bore is not cracked to water passage. what are your plans for motor, if you say racey at all ill say sleeve it, or get another block


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: hemigod426] #873204
12/07/10 12:34 AM
12/07/10 12:34 AM
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lookin to make 700-750hp with it.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873205
12/07/10 12:37 AM
12/07/10 12:37 AM
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Quote:

lookin to make 700-750hp with it. [8 sleeves and block filler short pour/quote]


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: Sport440] #873206
12/07/10 12:41 AM
12/07/10 12:41 AM
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Quote:

Id be very suspect of those numbers. Especially when you state all bores the Same







I doubt the accuracy and usefulness of the numbers you were given. Sorry.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: @#$%&*!] #873207
12/07/10 12:49 AM
12/07/10 12:49 AM
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Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:

Quote:

Id be very suspect of those numbers. Especially when you state all bores the Same







I doubt the accuracy and usefulness of the numbers you were given. Sorry.




X3

Silly question: Is there heavy scale in the jackets? Was the block tanked/scaled before measuring?

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: 64Post] #873208
12/07/10 12:55 AM
12/07/10 12:55 AM
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the block has not been tanked yet. wanted to get it mag'ed and sonic checked first.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873209
12/07/10 01:06 AM
12/07/10 01:06 AM
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Romeo MI
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Those are some SUPER good numbers... I would take it
to another shop to have it tested... the guy I take my
blocks to gives me a PILE FULL of numbers, 64 readings
per cylinder for $70... I have never heard of cyl being
that equal... would be nice if it is

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: MR_P_BODY] #873210
12/07/10 01:18 AM
12/07/10 01:18 AM
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i was just thinkin i should take it down to best machine. if i get a clean bill of health from there i can be confident its a good block.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873211
12/07/10 01:20 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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here's the numbers i got.

6342793-carpics.jpg (98 downloads)
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873212
12/07/10 01:26 AM
12/07/10 01:26 AM
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Quote:

the block has not been tanked yet. wanted to get it mag'ed and sonic checked first.




If there is scale build-up you'll get inaccurate readings...

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873213
12/07/10 01:29 AM
12/07/10 01:29 AM
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No way one bank of cylinders mirror the other. I would take those figures with a grain of salt.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: dannysbee] #873214
12/07/10 01:46 AM
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looks like it will get rechecked.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873215
12/07/10 01:54 AM
12/07/10 01:54 AM
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Franklin, TN
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Quote:

its either the same or he only measured the thrust side,but what would it matter. would'nt the thrust side be more important anyway?




Dave,
The thrust side may be more important, but if the non-thrust side is .080" it doesn't matter how thick the thrust side is, you can split a cylinder just as easily....... don't ask me how I know.....


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: 23T Hemmee] #873216
12/07/10 11:49 AM
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ok, point taken.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873217
12/07/10 01:50 PM
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Quote:

here's the numbers i got.


Both banks are exactly the same......... Sorry, but those numbers are better than most after market mopar blocks.......bs I say.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: Thumperdart] #873218
12/07/10 01:52 PM
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just talked to best machine,their swamped with work,so i'm looking for a shop to recheck.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873219
12/07/10 09:30 PM
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looks like muscle motors with get the work. $135 with appointment and i can wait while they get er done.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873220
12/07/10 09:39 PM
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While Mike/MR Pbody gets 74 readings per cyl.

I think 12 per cyl is fine 4 top/ 4 mid /4 bottom, but more is even nicer.

But 74 per cyl Mike, Give us a pic of Those reads mike

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: Sport440] #873221
12/07/10 09:53 PM
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Franklin, TN
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Has anyone ever noticed, that #1 cylinder on a B or RB always seems to be the thinnest, at least on the blocks I've had done through the years? I've only done half a dozen or so but just curious if anyone else has run into that.


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: 23T Hemmee] #873222
12/08/10 02:38 AM
12/08/10 02:38 AM
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I check each cylinder in 12 places, one inch down(and away from any head bolt bosses), halfway down of the stroke and one to two inches up from the bottom of the cylinders. this is on all four corners, camside, front, back and outside of block (motor mount side). I have seen some shops use the average method, one reading per side sliding the probe from top to bottom of the cylinder and then give you the thinnest reading, but I don't like that method so I do it the long, hard way


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: 23T Hemmee] #873223
12/08/10 06:40 AM
12/08/10 06:40 AM
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Norway (old world)
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Quote:

Has anyone ever noticed, that #1 cylinder on a B or RB always seems to be the thinnest, at least on the blocks I've had done through the years? I've only done half a dozen or so but just curious if anyone else has run into that.



Yes, Ronny, I have tested some, and it seems that #1 is thin on the thrust side, and number 8 is thin on the other side, it sees to be a pattern on the blocks that I have measured. The other cylinders seem to be more even. Could be a consequence of the way the cores are placed by some sort of machine? (I do not know the process).I better go with alublock and machined sleeves...(LOL)

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: Oyvind Mopar] #873224
12/08/10 10:57 AM
12/08/10 10:57 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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i'm hoping to get some accurate numbers from MM next week.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: MR_P_BODY] #873225
12/08/10 11:04 AM
12/08/10 11:04 AM
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Dave please let us know how it turns out.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: dannysbee] #873226
12/08/10 11:06 AM
12/08/10 11:06 AM
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i'll post the numbers when i get them.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873227
12/08/10 03:29 PM
12/08/10 03:29 PM
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Quote:

i'm hoping to get some accurate numbers from MM next week.




Tell them you're going to publish the results on Moparts. That might prod them into giving you good service. They have a reputation to repair.

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: mopar dave] #873228
12/09/10 11:30 AM
12/09/10 11:30 AM
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Lansing, MI
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Yes we can sonic they while you wait. (WITH AN APPOINTMENT) It takes just over an hour and a sheet with the thinnest number for major/minor thrust and both sides @ 9/3. It is only $75 for the sonic (on a clean block) Dave requested the block be magged as well. I wish I could get $135 to sonic block

Mike @MM

Re: max overbore on a 72 400 block [Re: MuscleMike] #873229
12/09/10 12:40 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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Mike,Eric gave me the price of $135. i think this was for mag&sonic. can you do both while i wait?

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