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Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: daniel_depetro] #867879 12/08/10 07:33 PM 12/08/10 07:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT gdonovan I Live Here
gdonovan I Live Here Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT	Quote: I'm sure $2,500.00 is reasonable to almost anyone, but $4,200.00 is more then some of us have into some of our cars. I find that hard to fantom as I'm told its impossible to have less than $10,000 in a restored Mopar. I have "about" or slightly less that in my 1974 Duster 360 and that is with me doing the bulk of the work. So folks which is it? For a "limited edition" clean sheet of paper transmission that fits in an old school car without mods I find it reasonable. How much is a 5 or 6 speed trans in a viper or other limited production car that will be made in far greater numbers? $2000-$3000 and it won't fit without heavy mods? $4200 seems like a steal to me and it really wans't that long ago that such a item was beyond consideration. Many people forget that not long ago there was no aftermarket for Mopars, you scrounged through junkyards and used parts ads looking for stuff.

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: gdonovan] #867880 12/08/10 08:53 PM 12/08/10 08:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	Just for fun I priced a new Richmond 5-speed and on the Summit site it costs over $4100.00 without the shifter,add about $500.00 for a good shifter and linkage.Now you will need a T400 yoke and a longer driveshaft,custom make your crossmember and mount,whack a huge hole in your floor,cut and box your torsion crossmember...Or you can just bolt in a trans that will equal or surpass the strength of the Richmond box. Gus 6346227-burnoutpicturegus.JPG (190 downloads) 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: fourgearsavoy] #867881 12/08/10 10:54 PM 12/08/10 10:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	I dunno, I got my 65 Cuda for $2k and I have about that much more into it in parts and whatnot. I'd love a 5 speed in it and if I get one it will be Jaime's, but (you knew that was coming) I simply do not have that kind of cash to spend especially when you consider my $2k more includes two A833OD's. If I had the money, and time to be honest, to build my Cuda the way I want it Jaime's trans would be part of the equation. But life gets in the way. Who knows, I have 4 kids and soon three will be out of the house leaving just the boy, so I might have the money then, assuming I don;t spend it all on Nerf G-U-N-s for him, lol.. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: Supercuda] #867882 12/09/10 12:06 AM 12/09/10 12:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	I get it because I have an empty nest now as my son moved out on his own I dropped about 6500 on my car last year and I already had the trans and rear done from the year before I just really think that if you are putting down some big torque in a heavy car this tranny is the best choice. Gus 6346624-burnoutpicturegus.JPG (189 downloads) 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: gdonovan] #867883 12/09/10 10:04 AM 12/09/10 10:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,445 Sterling Heights, Michigan 483... daniel_depetro pro stock
daniel_depetro pro stock Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,445 Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...	Quote: I find that hard to fantom as I'm told its impossible to have less than $10,000 in a restored Mopar. I have "about" or slightly less that in my 1974 Duster 360 and that is with me doing the bulk of the work. I never said my Mopars were restored. You must have misunderstood what I posted. So folks which is it? Me, the Mopar guys I hang around, and SuperCuda I guess. Surely there is more then just us?!?! Quote: Many people forget that not long ago there was no aftermarket for Mopars, you scrounged through junkyards and used parts ads looking for stuff. Once again this is still how some of us build our Mopars. To date the Mopar I've paid the most for is $6,100.00 and I don't have much more then that into at this point (~$7,000.00). It was a rust free and straight 1968 Coronet coupe that was a driver as purchased in 2008 with a built 1968 440 HP2 engine, 4-speed manual in it all set-up with quite a few aftermarket add ons,nice aluminum wheels, and a Super Bee hood. It was bought from a swap meet after "thinking about it" for a day and a half so it's not like I scored a deal nobody else could have bought. Even the supercharged (small B&M roots type supercharger) 1972 Dart was less then that to build, though honestly not much. Shoot me an e-mail at: daniel_depetro@yahoo.com and I'll send you a bunch of car porn of some of our toys past and present. All of which have been built for less then the ~$7,000.00 I have into the 1968 Coronet coupe so far. My point from my earlier post was that not everyone has a fully restored show car. Some of us have to compromise between function and price. Since a few members mention strength my curiousity piqued a bit. Anyone know an aprox. "torque rating" that the 23-spline & 18-spline A-833 would have been? 1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10) 1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23) 1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: JamiePasson] #867884 12/09/10 12:01 PM 12/09/10 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: Hemigod, Since you ask, the manufacturing cost on this unit with shifter and linkage is $3865. Please keep in mind that this was developed from a clean sheet of paper. We didn't take an off the shelf trans and try to make a bunch of crossmembers and bellhousings and try to jam it into a muscle car. These things cost money. Believe me, I wish it would have been cheaper to build, but the fact is that it wasn't. I'm not gonna sit here and lie to anyone. we are in this to make a profit. Although, I love this stuff, we need to eat too. It seems that too many times, people want a stellar product and expect companies to design, develop and manufacture the product and not make any money. Lets face it... If this was easy or cheap to do, then why has NO ONE stepped up to the plate yet? We were the first. Would I like to make more on it, sure, but I feel that $4295.00 is a fair price when considering the options. This is what we need to sell the unit for to continue the project. Most of the feedback I have gotten has been positive, some negative. That is to be expected. I just want everyone to know where we are coming from on our pricing. I would like to take this time to thank everyone that supported us on this project and those that continue to support us. I realize that this transmission is expensive and it isn't for everyone. But truth be told, we are really right around the same costs as the "others" out there, and this requires no mods to the car. Also, it is a true afternoon swap. In my book, there is value added to the product because of this fact. Hopefully others will agree there. Thanks, Jamie great product, very fair price...for all the schmucks who say it's too high, you have no idea the amount of cost tooling up something like this is, especially on a low volume. I'm sure if Jamie had a projected volume of say, 50k units a year, it would be about half the price, due to being able to spread the tooling cost over a number of additional units, or changing manufacturing processes... when I worked at a shifter manufacturer, I worked on the design for the 6 speed Holden Commodore. projected volume was 1500 units/yr. that low of volume required making a number of pieces out of machined stock vs. a die casting or forging, because it was just too expensive to make a $20k+ tool for 1500 units annually. the base was sand cast aluminum with a ton of secondary machining that was over $20 our cost, but that was cheaper than our typical die cast aluminum or powedered metal tower (with no secondary machining) riveted onto a sheetmetal base, because you couldn't amortize the dies over only 1500 units annually....on some of the rubber and plastic molded parts, it was cheaper to make a new prototype level tool that would last for about 2000 shots every year than a full production type tool over the life of the project. IIRC that shifter, our cost was over $100. if it were a projected 30k units a year, we probably could have made it for ~$30, maybe less. 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: daniel_depetro] #867885 12/09/10 12:12 PM 12/09/10 12:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	also, don't forget, he said he'd take a 4 speed tranny on partial trade, making the net cost lower... 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: JamiePasson] #867886 12/09/10 12:24 PM 12/09/10 12:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 83 Hamilton, OH T Troy68 member
Troy68 member T Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 83 Hamilton, OH	Since when does every manufacturer need to produce parts that absolutely everyone can afford? I had a $300 truck once - should I be able to buy everything needed for that truck for less than $300? It's not the manufacturer's problem that people buy inexpensive cars and then want cheap "mods" as well. This transmission is an aftermarket/non-stock piece with a pretty specific purpose. If it fits within your requirements then buy it. There are cheaper ways to get an overdrive trans - although, most all have some sort of drawback - so, if budget is your primary concern then that's part of your requirements that this trans doesn't meet. Pretty simple if you ask me. I personally think it's a great idea. I am not a fabricator and I don't like cutting holes in my floors or modifying original parts to make something fit. I like to pull a part out of the box knowing it will fit without any hassle. My time is worth something - and so is frustration (or lack thereof). I hate not being able to drive my preferred speed on the highway because I have gears that are more fun going stoplight to stoplight. Since I drive a lot on the highway, I have to compromise and deal with horrendous performance around town. My cars already have 18 spline transmissions in them so I don't need to buy a whole lot of extra parts for a conversion (already did it). I guess one could see that as a drawback since I could sell the original pieces to offset the cost of a different conversion. However, a 5-speed is NOT a necessity so I could choose to deal with what I have a save a lot of money. If I have the budget when I get to that point on my current project I will buy one because it's what I want and it's actually available. I may have to buy cheaper wheels I guess... Troy

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: 2fast4yourBrain] #867887 12/09/10 02:03 PM 12/09/10 02:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Here is an idea for Jamie............ go ahead and find a Chineese or Indian manufacturer and commission inexpensive knockoff and offer a second tier option. This way you can sell two, the first one when the customer wants to do it cheap, and a second one when they decide to do it right. Scott You're joking, right? Also, you have China do it, they'll just steal the specs and then ProComp or Eagle will sell it as their own. But that's what the mASSes want, look how they flock to these cheap ripoffs and do not care one bit that someone elses design was ripped off because it's cheap. I have an original Big block A body 4 speed car , is the trans expensive , yes , but I don't want to cut on my car at all and I want to keep the steep gears in it . For those that don't like the price Jamie does have a lower cost altenative already , the 4 speed OD gear set that fits in your current trans case . Last edited by JohnRR; 12/09/10 02:14 PM.

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: finadk] #867888 12/09/10 02:04 PM 12/09/10 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Well all that they have to do is buy one and reverse engineer it like they do with everything else. If someone was inclined to copy the part its quite hard ($$$) to stop them. welcome to the Global economy. Scott hhhmmm , I can see the company name now .... 5speedsource

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: Troy68] #867889 12/09/10 02:10 PM 12/09/10 02:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 182 Columbia, Missouri D dtedler member
dtedler member D Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 182 Columbia, Missouri	Patrick makes valid points that many of us don't comprehend. Tooling can be amazingly expensive but this is all CNC work for the guts of the transmission. The case and tail housing are not considered in that last statement. One item that many don't assume a cost for is marketing. Also, the cost of money. To stock inventory cost's money, usage taxes....etc. It all adds up. Also, you would not believe the cost per month to advertise in our monthly magazines. Talk about expensive..... To me the price is not out of line. I wish Jaime well in this transmission, I'm sure it will be a quality product as are all his products. Best of luck.

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: dtedler] #867890 12/09/10 02:19 PM 12/09/10 02:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,978 U.S.S.A.	Jamie , couple of questions , I know they won't get answered till next week . 1) What mount location will the B/E trans have , I assume the 70 up location? I never bought your B/E tail for the alum case I bought. 2) If someone bought say the A body trans and wanted to change it at a later date to the B/E would it be possible to buy a mainshaft and tailhousing, or send it in to have it retro fitted ?

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: JohnRR] #867891 12/09/10 05:32 PM 12/09/10 05:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 205 Martinsville, VA 4 440child enthusiast
440child enthusiast 4 Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 205 Martinsville, VA	Jamie, I myself personally thank you for not only developing a quality piece from scratch and keeping us well informed along the way, but also for graciously answering all the questions that have put to you. You could've just as easily said,'Look, here it is, take it or leave it.' Much thanks to you and your crew, and I look forward to owning one of these units and the experience of dealing with y'all.

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: daniel_depetro] #867892 12/09/10 06:47 PM 12/09/10 06:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT gdonovan I Live Here
gdonovan I Live Here Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT	Quote: Once again this is still how some of us build our Mopars. And you think mine is different? I have rebuilt the motor, trans and rear diff myself with a generous helping of elbow grease combined with combing sale ads and ebay for the best prices for used and new parts (as needed) The body was stripped down by me and everything was referb'd by me with the exception of the paint. The most expensive "hard parts" on my Duster is the $700 heads from Hughes. The shortblock was from a '94 Dodge van that was rebuilt in a shed along with the trans and rear diff. The car even still has the original torque converter. I'd not call the car "show" more of a clean driver. I can make a buck go pretty darn far and I find Mr. Passon's transmission price to be more than fair considering the clean sheet design and projected sales numbers (or lack thereof). 6347795-garyscar_a.jpg (303 downloads)

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: JohnRR] #867893 12/09/10 08:30 PM 12/09/10 08:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA O Old School super stock
Old School super stock O Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA	Quote: Quote: Well all that they have to do is buy one and reverse engineer it like they do with everything else. If someone was inclined to copy the part its quite hard ($$$) to stop them. welcome to the Global economy. Scott hhhmmm , I can see the company name now .... 5speedsource now that is some funny sh*t.... 68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

Re: 5 speed pricing info [Re: JamiePasson] #867894 12/10/10 12:40 AM 12/10/10 12:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,172 Ohio T theclutcher top fuel
theclutcher top fuel T Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,172 Ohio	Looks beautiful to me. Materials upgrade. Engineering improvements. High torque capacity. Bolt in, no hacking. Trade ins accepted. MADE IN USA. Reasonable price. Can we see the insides? Hats off Jamie, looks good.

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: daniel_depetro] #867895 12/10/10 10:47 AM 12/10/10 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana F Fury Fan master
Fury Fan master F Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana	Quote: I'm sure $2,500.00 is reasonable to almost anyone, but $4,200.00 is more then some of us have into some of our cars. I'm not saying it isn't going to be the best choice for for restored Mopar. Just like everything else I buy I want to make sure I'm getting the maximum part per dollar spent that best suits my particular wants. Sometimes that means I don't need the best piece on the market. Lots of you guys don't realize that there are lots of us guys that can't justify a $4200 trans because we can't afford $15-20,000 to invest in an old car. I have 4 cars and $4200 equals lots of new tires, disc brake swaps, suspension rebuilds, interior work, etc, to spread amongst all of them. It also equals 4 months of house payments in this bad economy, which is why they don't all have disc brakes, new tires and new interiors. We make priorities and choices. Jamie - I'm glad you're out there and glad you made this trans a reality (I work for a transmission manufacturer so I'm kinda proud of you, too! ). If I stumble into a chunk of money you'll get some business from me.

Re: New Passon Performance 5 Speed update [Re: Fury Fan] #867896 12/10/10 07:38 PM 12/10/10 07:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 209 Mesa, Arizona 6pak2go enthusiast
6pak2go enthusiast Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 209 Mesa, Arizona	I'm building a street/strip A-body. With a 650 ft/lb rating, would it live behind a 600 HP 505 with a soft-lock clutch and slicks? Projected race weight is 3200 lb w/driver. Also, with syncros, I'm assuming it will speed shift about the same as the A-833, just over 6000 RPM? Discuss.

Re: 5 speed pricing info [Re: theclutcher] #867897 12/10/10 10:47 PM 12/10/10 10:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN R Rug_Trucker I Live Here
Rug_Trucker I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN	If you can't afford it? Shut up! Not everyone is rich. I'm not. I'll wait for someone to buy one and let it sit in his shop until he needs the $$$ because of hard times. Or get a used one. Or buy a new one. IMO this isn't the place to piss and moan. That is why we have a GENERAL SECTION.

Re: 5 speed pricing info [Re: Rug_Trucker] #867898 12/11/10 12:17 AM 12/11/10 12:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,445 Sterling Heights, Michigan 483... daniel_depetro pro stock
daniel_depetro pro stock Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,445 Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...	Which is precisely where this very thread started until the mods moved it after it was going. I've never wished ill fate on Jamie or his company or said his transmission was not a good product. 1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10) 1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23) 1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)

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