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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: chache876]
#837155
10/25/10 07:42 PM
10/25/10 07:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,518
Indiana
MonGoo$e
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,518
Indiana
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I spoke with Engine builder today, well known Mopar guy, he told me currently, he has to farm his balancing out, so he remembered it well, when it was being done, the guy working on it said "you need this weight on it" Abotu a week later he went back and the owner had the balancer, etc on, and without the weight, Engine guy asked "what about the weight?" Owner of the balance shop said "it'd good where it's at"
He said with that he figured they neutral balanced it or something..He was a little frustrated with the guy because the guy isn't saying much, anyways thats one story for another day but he suggested trying the 3 weights, first starting with smallest (I have weights and paperwork) the largest is the original 71+ style 360 weight. I'd like to just do that one but I have no idea what the eagle 4" cranks are based off of.
I'm a little annoyed with this but I'm sure I'll figure it out sooner than later with this trial and error stuff.
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: MonGoo$e]
#837156
10/25/10 09:12 PM
10/25/10 09:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
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Quote:
I spoke with Engine builder today, well known Mopar guy, he told me currently, he has to farm his balancing out, so he remembered it well, when it was being done, the guy working on it said "you need this weight on it" Abotu a week later he went back and the owner had the balancer, etc on, and without the weight, Engine guy asked "what about the weight?" Owner of the balance shop said "it'd good where it's at"
He said with that he figured they neutral balanced it or something..He was a little frustrated with the guy because the guy isn't saying much, anyways thats one story for another day but he suggested trying the 3 weights, first starting with smallest (I have weights and paperwork) the largest is the original 71+ style 360 weight. I'd like to just do that one but I have no idea what the eagle 4" cranks are based off of.
I'm a little annoyed with this but I'm sure I'll figure it out sooner than later with this trial and error stuff.
if they internally balanced it you will slugs of mallery metal in the front and rear counterweights on the crank...
yes...let's try 3 different weights on the balancer..LOL...sorry
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#837157
10/25/10 10:17 PM
10/25/10 10:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,091
oberlin, Ohio
Rapid340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,091
oberlin, Ohio
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I have seen one guy balance for an offset weighted damper but a neutral flexplate.
BTW, you really got a raw deal from the sound of it.
1971 Factory Appearing Duster 340 11.000 @ 122 mph
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: Rapid340]
#837158
10/25/10 10:33 PM
10/25/10 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,255
Columbus, GA
Michael Ecks
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,255
Columbus, GA
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... Um... Okay it sounds like you have indeed gotten a bad deal on this thing. If the engine builder actually said to just go ahead and try the different weights then he is a f____ng moron and you need to find a new engine builder, I don't care how well known of a mopar guy he is. Your best starting place in my opinion if he claims the balance guy said it was good where it was, would be to remove the offset balance flexplate and bolt on a neutral one along with the neutral balance converter. 
"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of
your thoughts" ~ Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: Michael Ecks]
#837160
10/26/10 12:52 AM
10/26/10 12:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,518
Indiana
MonGoo$e
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,518
Indiana
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Quote:
Quote:
= I would think you should have a weight on your
converter aswell. Ive got several bad reviews on Bosshogs, but havent had 1st hand withem.
The OP said he has the B&M flexplate with the offset (weight I am assuming).
it's the ones thats round but has the sliver cut from one side of the plate. it looks like this one:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3035/461/7585230071_large.jpg
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: MonGoo$e]
#837162
10/26/10 07:25 PM
10/26/10 07:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
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It will contradict what some people say, but all I can do is share my experiences.
I built a 408 using an eagle 4" cast crank, eagle H beams and SRP forged slugs. It was supplied as an internally balanced rotating assembly. When I received it I noticed it only needed minor drilling to internally balance, no mallory at all. It seemed odd to me and I contacted the shop and there is apparently some misinformation with eagle's specs on their cranks.
I put a neutral balance SFI damper on front and a neutral flexplate/converter combo and it ran great. Ran 11.90s in my F.A.S.T. Duster while the big motor was being built.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: mod381]
#837165
10/26/10 08:52 PM
10/26/10 08:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,091
oberlin, Ohio
Rapid340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,091
oberlin, Ohio
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If I remember correctly Eagle cast 4 in cranks have a target bobweight of 1850 grams. They have been made that way for a couple years so it could be neutral balanced. If your rods/pistons/rings/bearings didnt work out to more than 1850, neutral balancing would have taken the least effort and cost to balance. If it were me that is what I would try next. Swap the half moon flexplate for a std one and damper also if the current one is not a neutral damper.
1971 Factory Appearing Duster 340 11.000 @ 122 mph
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: Rapid340]
#837166
10/26/10 09:37 PM
10/26/10 09:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I internally balance all my engines. With two seperate builds and Eagle cast cranks:
1 - stock rods, forged pistons - needed Mallory.
1 - SIR Eagle rods, forged pistons, needed only drilling (and a lot of it).
If you have a vibration, it is well worth taking it apart and having a shop properly address it. You might get it better but not right, and that crank is not known for taking a lot of abuse well.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: moper]
#837167
10/26/10 10:14 PM
10/26/10 10:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
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Quote:
I internally balance all my engines. With two seperate builds and Eagle cast cranks:
1 - stock rods, forged pistons - needed Mallory.
1 - SIR Eagle rods, forged pistons, needed only drilling (and a lot of it).
If you have a vibration, it is well worth taking it apart and having a shop properly address it. You might get it better but not right, and that crank is not known for taking a lot of abuse well.
Mongoose, I know you don't want to hear it but Moper is on target. Only way to be sure.
I would stop mismatching offset balanced stuff. If you have a vibration with the external balance 360 crap then to me the only crapshoot before pulling it all apart would be going with neutral balance stuff and giving it a go. Since you have a pick-your-imbalance balancer and stock mopar flex plates are a dime a dozen, the only thing it will cost you is labor.
Perhaps a little more info would help. What rods and pistons are in that motor?? I'm assuming there is no balance sheet available from the balance shop with all the weights recorded?
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: CJK440]
#837168
10/26/10 10:52 PM
10/26/10 10:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,518
Indiana
MonGoo$e
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,518
Indiana
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I'm a bit annoyed tonight, I placed a call to the engine builder, it actually surprises me greatly he wasnt sure from the get-go about my crank. he explained the bob weight, and that the shop he takes them to usually externally balances, (based on early post you'll notice the story) Well he said they must have screwed up somewhere and forgot to add that weight on, he suggested the middle weight, well I stuck it on, and in 20 minutes I had it back on, i started it and right away it was shaking, I shut it down and ruled that particular weight out. He said the offset plate I'm using is fine, they are using that on the strokers. If anything I'm confused, guy used to work on this stuff professionally in the 60's-70's in Florida and I feel like I'm an exception here. I asked him to get in touch with that shop and get me some info, he said they don't keep records.  I'm just going to do with what I can at this time, All I've done is work with this thing since I put it together. I went ahead and popped the balancer off again tonight and I'm going to try that small one, just to see what it does on start up. Moe and more I'm wishing I would have just stuck with a 360 crank, that way you just slip a stock balancer on there and forget about it. I'm not interested in worrying about this stuff. But I'm forced to. If anything, he can fix the motor at his expense if need be. bad deal.
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: MonGoo$e]
#837169
10/28/10 05:02 AM
10/28/10 05:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
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Quote:
I built a 408 using an eagle 4" cast crank, eagle H beams and SRP forged slugs. It was supplied as an internally balanced rotating assembly. When I received it I noticed it only needed minor drilling to internally balance, no mallory at all. It seemed odd to me and I contacted the shop and there is apparently some misinformation with eagle's specs on their cranks.
I put a neutral balance SFI damper on front and a neutral flexplate/converter combo and it ran great. Ran 11.90s in my F.A.S.T. Duster while the big motor was being built.
X1 and ditto - Check half way down -
Eagle crankshafts
Choose "Chrysler" and then "360" - it lists options for the 360 cast crank (external) and the 4" (Internal)
The Eagle site clearly states that the 4" cast Eagle is set up for INTERNAL balancing.
If you try to externally balance it, you need to rip more metal from the crank than necessary.
Some suppliers get it wrong - but your builder should have checked.
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: MonGoo$e]
#837171
10/28/10 01:36 PM
10/28/10 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,089
Sorrento, BC, Canada
4speeds4me
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,089
Sorrento, BC, Canada
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Mongoo$e- If the crank was, in fact, internally balanced, and you are using the B&M "weighted" flexplate (the one with the part moon cutout) then you have added an external balance flexplate to an internal balance engine.
I am somewhat appalled at the lack of paper trail your engine has. When I built my 408 the balancer gave me a detailed readout. Bobweight, breakdown of each piece, how much mallory metal and the final readout of the recip assembly, etc. That way, if I ever needed to replace one component due to failure, I wouldn't need to start from scratch.
2 Demons...no, not my kids! 
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Re: Here's another question Eagle cast crank 408
[Re: MonGoo$e]
#837173
10/28/10 08:30 PM
10/28/10 08:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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As I said, that crank is not a stout piece. If it's out, and to me it sounds like your shop guys purely guessing (and guessing wrong), that crank won't last with much abuse. It's cheaper to pull it out and fix it, than replace it when the crank breaks.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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