Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
#829525
10/14/10 11:17 AM
10/14/10 11:17 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
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St Charles MO
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Some of you may have read I am fightin with my carb.
Car 72 charger with a 400. Probably stock compression, with headers and a torker intake.
Basically, I have a Eddy 1411 (750 CFM carb), I have gone 2 stages lean on the jets and rods. I have the electric choke hooked up and it works. I have the accel pump in the hole closest to the carb body. (The Eddy tech told me this should help with off-idle stumble)
I went 2 stages lean because the plugs were black and practically dripping with gas, the exhaust was black and sooty. It is no longer black and sooty and I have not yet checked the new plugs I put in the car. I am doing that Sat.
The car starts and idles fine. It comes down from high idle and sits there all nice and happy. Put it in gear and back the car out of the driveway, it is fine, put it in drive and take off, it will sputter and die. Sometimes it gives a little backfire and dies.
It will restart and then usually it will be OK, but at stop signs or stop lights, it wants to die after sitting there for a minute or two.
The carb is suffering from fuel percolation, but that should not matter upon initial startup and take off should it? I am buying a phenloic gasket to take care of that, so it should be a non-issue. I saw this first hand when I took the top off the carb after driving for 20 minutes and there were bubbles coming from the main jets.
Timing is set at 15 BTDC or so. It has new cap, rotor, wires plugs. Running MSD 6A with a MSD pro-billet dizzy. The coil might still be Ma mopar. It is black with no label.
This is driving me nuts and the kid is not trusting his car. I need this to run better any ideas at all?
600 Holley and a Performer dual plane has been proposed. Does that have merit?
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 70Coronet500Vert]
#829527
10/14/10 11:38 AM
10/14/10 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Puyallup, WA
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You'll find the list of posts from people fighting with the "off idle stumble" with the Eddy 1411 carburetor is at least a mile long. We could go over various tuning techniques and options.... There are people out there that apparently have been blessed with the carburetor gene, and claim to be able to make these things work, but they are few and far between. I spent the better part of an entire summer fighting with one of these POS carbs on my 383. I bought the tuning kit, and tried every combo possible.
The best way to tune an Eddy 1411 is to remove it from your car! Sell it or shelve it, and get yourself a tried & true Holley 750 Vacuum Secondary. A basic 3310, an 80508, or a street avenger 770 will all work great. The sooner you do that, the better off you are.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#829528
10/14/10 11:48 AM
10/14/10 11:48 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
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St Charles MO
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Dang, they really tha bad? You are the third of 4th person to tell me to ditch the carb.
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 70Coronet500Vert]
#829529
10/14/10 11:56 AM
10/14/10 11:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Rodney
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
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If you can find a test proven good carb bolt it on to rule out ignition or other issues. compression test? good fuel delivery? IMO the torker is not a good choice for a stock engine. Quote:
Edelbrock's Torker II intake manifolds feature a single-plane, low-rise design that can give you top-end horsepower without affecting the mid-range. What Edelbrock did was increase the plenum volume and alter the short-side radius of the runners, to give the air/fuel charge a straight shot at the intake valves. That straight shot produces a potent power build from 2,500 to 6,500 rpm.
plug wires?
Quote:
SPARK PLUGS AND WIRES
Spark plug wires are very important to the operation of your ignition system. A good quality,
helically wound wire and proper routing are required to get the best performance from your
ignition, such as the MSD Heli-Core or 8.5mm Super Conductor Wire.
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: Rodney]
#829530
10/14/10 12:04 PM
10/14/10 12:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 810
Sidney Ohio
9SecRoadRunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 810
Sidney Ohio
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I have installed 8 or 9 of them on alot of different applications, from mild 318's to two of them on my 9.70 et in the 1/4 mile 69 road runner, I guess I got lucky every time?? not saying some of them didnt take alot of tweaking and testing, but they can all be made to work good (without bog) with some patience and perserverance....or you can listen to the "experts" and buy one of them 100% perfect everytime out of the box holley that makes 100 more horsepower and sell me that eddy real cheap..lol ok experts..flame away 
You Thinking It's So Doesn't Make It a Fact
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 9SecRoadRunner]
#829531
10/14/10 12:17 PM
10/14/10 12:17 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
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St Charles MO
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Actually, I forgot to write I went with the plain springs too, which are the stiffest. This should give me a fuel shot as I come off idle. I need a vaccum gauge for the tuning this weekend.
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 70Coronet500Vert]
#829532
10/14/10 12:18 PM
10/14/10 12:18 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
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Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
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What about heat range for the plugs? Could too cold of a plug be a problem on a basically stock engine?
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#829533
10/14/10 12:19 PM
10/14/10 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
You'll find the list of posts from people fighting with the "off idle stumble" with the Eddy 1411 carburetor is at least a mile long. We could go over various tuning techniques and options.... There are people out there that apparently have been blessed with the carburetor gene, and claim to be able to make these things work, but they are few and far between. I spent the better part of an entire summer fighting with one of these POS carbs on my 383. I bought the tuning kit, and tried every combo possible.
The best way to tune an Eddy 1411 is to remove it from your car! Sell it or shelve it, and get yourself a tried & true Holley 750 Vacuum Secondary. A basic 3310, an 80508, or a street avenger 770 will all work great. The sooner you do that, the better off you are.
hahaha funny. mostly true. I just didn't want to be the 1st to say it. I used to say the only way to make those eddy 750's run is to use 2.
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 9SecRoadRunner]
#829534
10/14/10 12:22 PM
10/14/10 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
I have installed 8 or 9 of them on alot of different applications, from mild 318's to two of them on my 9.70 et in the 1/4 mile 69 road runner, I guess I got lucky every time?? not saying some of them didnt take alot of tweaking and testing, but they can all be made to work good (without bog) with some patience and perserverance....or you can listen to the "experts" and buy one of them 100% perfect everytime out of the box holley that makes 100 more horsepower and sell me that eddy real cheap..lol
ok experts..flame away
 see he needs 2 of them to get the car down the track.... One Holley 950HP will do the trick 
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 70Coronet500Vert]
#829535
10/14/10 12:26 PM
10/14/10 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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I have read that the 1407's and 1411's suffer from design flaws in the enrichment transition circuit. The way I understand it, the transition is set up too lean to keep up with the initial air increase when coming off the idle circuit. This seemed to jive with the issues I had, as I could adjust it to the rich side with the metering rods and seemingly help the stumble issue, But then I was constantly dealing with a rich condition at part throttle cruise as the enrichment circuit would stay open. I'd back off with the metering rod springs, and my rich condition would dissapate, but I'd be back to the lean-stumble when I first tipped into the throttle. (sound familiar???) This problem seems to be magnafied if you're car has headers and / or even a mild performance camshaft, as they weaken the idle vacuum signal to the carb, and make it even harder for the Eddy carb to sense the initial need for more fuel when the throttle is opened. In your case, the open plenum, single plane torker manifold would only seem to magnify this.
To me, the arguments FOR going to a Holley Carb are just way to strong to ignore. As I said, I fought with the same thing you're dealing with, actually went through (2) 1411 carburetors, both had the same problems. I thought for sure I was just a rookie and wasn't good at tuning yet... Finally switched to a Holley 80508, and within minutes, my car ran like I'd been thinking it should have been of for months!
I know you've spent money on this carb, and buying another is likely something you'd rather not do.... I hear ya! I'm just passing on my experience.
Last edited by GEnsrud; 10/14/10 12:29 PM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#829538
10/14/10 01:19 PM
10/14/10 01:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 810
Sidney Ohio
9SecRoadRunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 810
Sidney Ohio
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see he needs 2 of them to get the car down the track.... One Holley 950HP will do the trick
one 950 will do the trick, but 2 750 eddys make MORE power..like it or not
maybe you just didnt have the ability to tune the eddys you had properly??
You Thinking It's So Doesn't Make It a Fact
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#829539
10/14/10 01:26 PM
10/14/10 01:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 810
Sidney Ohio
9SecRoadRunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 810
Sidney Ohio
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yes, 1411's and 1407's are what I am refering to, a 1407 on a relatively mild 318 and it worked fine, it probably never opened the secondaries all the way up but it worked, same carb switched to a mild 383 and it still worked fine....its not rocket science, people could get alot of really good tuning info on these threads and alot of help getting thier cars to run better which is the purpose of this forum if the "self proclaimed expert-know it all's" would just shut up and not comment on stuff they obviously know nothing about ...the people who do have legitimate info to offer usually wont because of these type of people...exactly why you seldom if ever see the premier engine builders post and give good free info anymore...they got tired of the dumb-@$$'s ....so to the original poster...sorry that the guys who could actually offer you some help wont post anymore, but you can ready this post and see who is to blame for it
You Thinking It's So Doesn't Make It a Fact
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 9SecRoadRunner]
#829540
10/14/10 01:36 PM
10/14/10 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
see he needs 2 of them to get the car down the track.... One Holley 950HP will do the trick
one 950 will do the trick, but 2 750 eddys make MORE power..like it or not
maybe you just didnt have the ability to tune the eddys you had properly??
Actually I was a fan of the carb a long time ago. Used one on a mild 440, had a built 383 in a dart w/ one, ran pretty good, it was tuned very well, but a friend let me barrow a 750HP carb and it ran so well I bought it off him. I ran almost 2 tenths quicker before tuning the holley and it pulled the entire 1320 while the Eddy 750 seemed to tap out at about the 1100 foot mark. I also had one on a 67 coronet w/ a mild 440, ran pretty good no issues, car ran a best of 13.11, picked up a used and very old 750, rebuilt it, tuned it and the car went 12.90. But you are right, I'm not a pro, I'm just a donkey that likes to get as much out of my car w/o wasteing a lot of time tooling around with a carb. I'm sure if you mess w/ one long enough you can make it work, or you can get a good carb to start with and tinker with it for an hour and be done. FWIW the Carter comp series 625 is a better carb than the Eddy 750 IMO. This is not the OP's 1st post on this carb. he has been given lots of info on how to tune it and it still isn't working correctly.
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#829541
10/14/10 01:39 PM
10/14/10 01:39 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
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OP
master
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Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
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Mr Yuck. I am OP and I am listening and doing what we are talking about in all these threads. I appreciate all the info being shared.
I just keep asking, because as we fix one area, another problem shows up. When it was rich, it never died off idle. Now it does, but it does not blow black smoke everywhere. SO I consider that progress!
Thanks for all the help.
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 70Coronet500Vert]
#829542
10/14/10 01:42 PM
10/14/10 01:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Mr Yuck. I am OP and I am listening and doing what we are talking about in all these threads. I appreciate all the info being shared.
I just keep asking, because as we fix one area, another problem shows up. When it was rich, it never died off idle. Now it does, but it does not blow black smoke everywhere. SO I consider that progress!
Thanks for all the help.
keep messing w/ it, yo'll get it.
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Re: Tuning a 1411 Edelbrock
[Re: 70Coronet500Vert]
#829544
10/15/10 08:41 PM
10/15/10 08:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 338
Montreal Quebec
STROKIE
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 338
Montreal Quebec
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It's very easy to blame a carb...  You can solve 99% of your tuning and drivability issues ("off idle bog") by simply replacing the outdated torker manifold with a modern dual plane hi rise intake manifold. The edelbrock carbs tend to want a lot (more) of initial spark advance at idle. You need to recurve your distributor mechanical advance curve, especially if you have a larger than stock cam in the motor. More initial at idle+ less mechanical advance travel +34-36deg total timing at high rpm WOT. You'll never completely get rid of the off idle bog at low rpm of a torker manifold. the cylinder to cylinder fuel distribution at low rpm near idle sucks. The cure is to replace the intake manifold with a dual plane intake manifold. You'll like the way the car drives overall a lot lot better. A modern dual plane hi rise will make more power at all points in the rpm range than the old torker.
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