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Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: Diplomat360] #825973
10/11/10 05:00 PM
10/11/10 05:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline OP
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Moparmal  Offline OP
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Melbourne.....Oz-land
Thanks D360 - I'm not sure I want to go through all that agony

I've done the holes in the butterfly thing a long time back - but this is a case of lean running well off the idle and into the low speed circuit.

I might try reducing the air bleed hole size and see if anything improves -

Like you - I still can't figure if you are meant to enlarge the idle jets as well as reduce the air bleed size - hopefully Demon Sizzler will chime in again.

Id also like to know what the correct base gasket is to use.

Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: Moparmal] #825974
10/11/10 07:12 PM
10/11/10 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 826
Stone Mt, GA.
D
DEMONSIZZLER Offline
super gas
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Stone Mt, GA.
Mal, you need to use an open center base gasket. All of the oem T.Q. base gaskets were open center. A 4 hole gasket will cause sever idle issues.

Also I would not suggest any bleed mods yet, David.

Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !] #825975
10/11/10 10:40 PM
10/11/10 10:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
Quote:

Hay Guys - members of the ThermoSquad ....

DID YOU HEAR that TODAY is the BIRTHDATE of the one-and-only Plastic Fantastic ?

Someone PLEASE ...post a pic of a cake ....with some flaming Berri Crabs on-top !




What year was that Doc?


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: Rug_Trucker] #825976
10/12/10 06:23 AM
10/12/10 06:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline OP
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Moparmal  Offline OP
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Melbourne.....Oz-land
Well I'd like to say its better news -


Just to recap, here's how the carb behaved on the DP intake before the swap -

    Mixture screws 4 turns out
    AF - idle was 12.2, Cruise was 14.5 and WOT was 12.5
    Vac was 13
    Jets were .101 / .138


I had it running pretty darn good.

On Sunday after the swap - I had

    Mixture screws all the way out
    13- 16 AFs bouncing around like crazy at idle
    Off the scale lean at cruise
    Vac bouncing between 9-13 and dropping to zero on deceleration.


I swapped on a buddies AVS 650 and all the bad symptoms went away!

    - it idled at 12.5 and I had steady Vac at 15.


This told me it was def a carb issue - not an intake leak.

- so here's how I spent my Tuesday evening -

Testing of TQ,

    Replaced the carb flange gasket - improved slightly but still a vacuum variation and running pretty ordinary (Sorry its bad news Dave) - AF was between 13 and 14.5 at idle

    Took the holes in the butterflies out to .094th - slightly more even idle but a still way lean and a big Vac drop after blipping the throttle.

    Blocked off the air bleeds completely, and the idle settled - it stayed around 12-13 AF and the Vac settled at 14.


So.......I thought I had it licked - till I went for a drive , and -

    AF dropped to zero when i let off the pedal

    AF went to 9s under light acceleration and I blew black smoke.


Conclusions

    - Blocking the air bleeds richened the mixture so it idled better

    - but the low speed circuit needs the air from the bleeds to maintain a decent cruise/light accelration mixture

    In which case - blocking the bleeds is not going to work.


Next step

Would I be right in thinking its not getting enough fuel through the idle circuit?

Is this common?

In which case, how do I fix it?

Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: Moparmal] #825977
10/12/10 10:17 AM
10/12/10 10:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
J
joedust451 Offline
super gas
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
Quote:

Well I'd like to say its better news -


Just to recap, here's how the carb behaved on the DP intake before the swap -

    Mixture screws 4 turns out
    AF - idle was 12.2, Cruise was 14.5 and WOT was 12.5
    Vac was 13
    Jets were .101 / .138


I had it running pretty darn good.

On Sunday after the swap - I had

    Mixture screws all the way out
    13- 16 AFs bouncing around like crazy at idle
    Off the scale lean at cruise
    Vac bouncing between 9-13 and dropping to zero on deceleration.


I swapped on a buddies AVS 650 and all the bad symptoms went away!

    - it idled at 12.5 and I had steady Vac at 15.


This told me it was def a carb issue - not an intake leak.

- so here's how I spent my Tuesday evening -

Testing of TQ,

    Replaced the carb flange gasket - improved slightly but still a vacuum variation and running pretty ordinary (Sorry its bad news Dave) - AF was between 13 and 14.5 at idle

    Took the holes in the butterflies out to .094th - slightly more even idle but a still way lean and a big Vac drop after blipping the throttle.

    Blocked off the air bleeds completely, and the idle settled - it stayed around 12-13 AF and the Vac settled at 14.


So.......I thought I had it licked - till I went for a drive , and -

    AF dropped to zero when i let off the pedal

    AF went to 9s under light acceleration and I blew black smoke.


Conclusions

    - Blocking the air bleeds richened the mixture so it idled better

    - but the low speed circuit needs the air from the bleeds to maintain a decent cruise/light accelration mixture

    In which case - blocking the bleeds is not going to work.


Next step

Would I be right in thinking its not getting enough fuel through the idle circuit?

Is this common?

In which case, how do I fix it?




Hey, i think you should "listen" to what demonsizzler advised you to do, that might solve your issues .


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: joedust451] #825978
10/12/10 11:18 AM
10/12/10 11:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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ademon Offline
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ademon  Offline
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Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
need to go back to the small jets and get those.107 out, also drop the tree to 1 or two turns, you may have knocked a float or something out of wack when you installed the .107's in.

Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: ademon] #825979
10/12/10 04:35 PM
10/12/10 04:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Rug_Trucker Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
Float height is measured from the gasket.

Re: TQ tuning issue using M1 intake (SB stroker) [Re: joedust451] #825980
10/12/10 04:48 PM
10/12/10 04:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline OP
master
Moparmal  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Quote:


Hey, i think you should "listen" to what demonsizzler advised you to do, that might solve your issues .




Joedust - Maybe you missed it - here it is......

Quote:

Replaced the carb flange gasket - improved slightly but still a vacuum variation and running pretty ordinary (Sorry its bad news Dave)




ademon - I went back to .101 jets as soon as I swapped the flange gasket - I've had a fair bit of experience with these carbs, but never hit this type of issue before....

I really think its not getting enough fuel, even with the air bleeds fully blocked, I can't get the AF below 12.5 AF

FWIW, if I'd had the mixture screws set like this on the old intake it would have been reading 9s!

.....so I'm wondering what my options are to fatten the idle circuit?

MM

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