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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: bwdst6]
#819775
10/05/10 02:38 PM
10/05/10 02:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
Ozark Mountains
Chevy454
I Love Mopars
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I Love Mopars
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
Ozark Mountains
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I'm just a lowly Chevy guy, so don't throw too many rocks, but...I'm gonna say if Dave felt it was imperative to run 500+ cubes then he'd definitely be doing so...my gut says there's a reason he's not. This isn't his first rodeo, fellas... Congrats to everyone in the FAST class on all the new bests, simply amazing... 
Rob Clary
Fat, yellow Yenko Camaro
11.75 @ 118, Pure Stock!
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#819779
10/05/10 02:50 PM
10/05/10 02:50 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Sorry but there isn't a stock stroke HEMI that will compete with the top dogs in the class.
Don't bet on that.
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#819780
10/05/10 02:57 PM
10/05/10 02:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
493_DART
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
so there killing cyl for the first 100' or so, or taking massive timing out 
60' is slow for a 9.90 pass ..... just wondering...
You think a 1.52 60ft is slow for a G60-14 polyglass tire.......He might be taking some power out, but not a lot. The car works, the track was good and he hit the setup.
Monte
i said et , but you just repeated my point
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: HPMike]
#819781
10/05/10 02:57 PM
10/05/10 02:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
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if you have the same parts it will shift the tq curve higher than dave with a std stroke,, which will make more power,, now the only thing i wonder is,, say dave has a 4.30 gear,, i dont know what he has,, but if you go and put a 5.13 in it,, you have like a 200% greater chance of spinning off the line due to increase of tq at the tire,,
might make good hp with it,,, now get it down the track
i think this class needs a tech guy to make sure people are running the right air cleaners,, air cleaner assemblies,, head casting numbers, blocks,, carbs,, etc...
also a few guys said some stuff about the fords front suspension,, a guy i know who does alot of race car wheel alignments along with stock daily drivers,, said he HAD to do that stuff to get the bumpsteer right,,, so i said did he really need to? he said yes,, then i asked again,, did he really need to? getting to... that thing has so much seperation in the front end,, i.e. alot of travel to try to get it to tranfer weight and hook,, that the bumpsteer would have been insane if he used all stock parts,,, the answer to that,, i guess you cant have that much travel... use the stock parts.... something a tech guy can make a call on,, not fellow racers,,
raise the price of the entry 25 or 50 bucks to each car,, and get a tech guy
congrats to lane and dave
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: moderncylinder]
#819782
10/05/10 03:05 PM
10/05/10 03:05 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Jeff I agree on the tech official. It's too difficult and time consuming for someone who is fielding a car to do it. It needs to be a neutral party.  MB
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: HPMike]
#819783
10/05/10 03:23 PM
10/05/10 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
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That was the Idea when I was doing Tech, I think the guys would agree I tried to be objective, fair and unbiased. There was a LOT of homework I did on the cars and that to me was the most fun and challenging part. There can be some degree of drama (as you can imagine), guys are understandably very passionate about their efforts so you got to have the right temprement for it for sure.
I had to resign the duties due to taking a job that involved a lot of International travel and that made it impossible to plan around, I'm not sure if they ever got somebody else to take it on but I'd like to do it again some time. Dave and the gang are great to hang around with, go fast and have fun, that was the name of the F.A.S.T. game as far as I was concerned.
As for Ford suspensions, I know Fords (virtually everything between the 1960 Falcon and the late 70's Fox body) have a lower control Arm Strut Rod that has a rubber biscuit pivoting bushing that attaches to the frame in order to triangulate the LCA. If you replace that with a softer bushing and/or a spherical rod end you can get a whole lot more front end travel for Drag racing. Conversely, on road race cars the trick is to stiffen the bushing in order to limit the travel and lateral roll (similar to a stiffer sway bar).
Last edited by Streetwize; 10/05/10 03:26 PM.
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#819784
10/05/10 03:54 PM
10/05/10 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Ky
moparmafia
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Ky
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
so there killing cyl for the first 100' or so, or taking massive timing out
60' is slow for a 9.90 pass ..... just wondering...
You think a 1.52 60ft is slow for a G60-14 polyglass tire.......He might be taking some power out, but not a lot. The car works, the track was good and he hit the setup.
And for those complaining about the big inch Ford, I have never personally seen a 500 cube HEMI from the factory. Must be like one of those 440 sixpack HEMIs or something. Heard about em, just never seen one................lol
and you have seen factory 588 fords? WOW
Monte
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: moparmafia]
#819785
10/05/10 04:13 PM
10/05/10 04:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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cant just everyone get along and realise that this class is all about doing anything as long as it is not vissible except for safety? the class was created by cheaters for cheaters and what i mean about cheating is as long as its not vissible its ok unless its for safety this kind of racing is not for anyone looking for fairness, if a ford can have more cubes great for ford,if a mopar is alowed more carbs great for the mopars, if you have found a winning concept use it  afterall racing is not for crybabies looking for fairness its about being the fastest within a set of rules and having fun while doing it. if it was about being fair it whould be boring and anyone should be able to get reruns until reaction time is zero for both cars and both should also be aloved reruns until both are happy about there time, and until both win,and with identical cars, it does not work like that, and i hope it never will that would be boring,like collecting stamps without the risk of having someone upen a window when there is a hurricane outside or the risk that you find your valuable stampcolection togheter with an anteater  why are people racing diferent stuff? cause they want to, is it up to anyone to be a crybaby about some other brand having an unfair advantage? nope. if you find that one brand or model has a very good advantage in one class, use it to your advantage or go all the way to realy try to even out the diference with your own creativeness. racing is about being the fastest within the set rules and have fun getting there some never get to the point of being the fastest but if all they do about it is complein they are wasting alot of energy that could be put into being the fastest and at the same time take all the fun out of it while doing so. dont waste no time. in racing its go for it or go home. cant just everyone get along and use what little technical can be found in these threads and actualy learn something that can help both yourself and maybe someone else? there is a lot of stuff to be learnt and i have learnt alitle in this thread that i had not figured out about how to make a car with lots of power hook up on small tires
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: moparmafia]
#819787
10/05/10 04:52 PM
10/05/10 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
N of Detroit
DaveDudek
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
N of Detroit
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Right now the only thing I use to get my Road Runner off the line is the springs in my distributer and my gas pedal. No studder box or MSD retards, my front suspension is all stock except the comp engineering 90/10`s (maybe $50 from Mancini), I don`t even have poly bushings. As a matter of fact everything is painted the correct color with all the concourse paint dabs and stuff.  People notice that type of stuff and it makes what were doing that much more impressive. I don`t know if I`m willing to give up that look to increase my front end travel and 60ft`s. I like kicking it old school.. A third party tech guy is a great idea and i believe over the winter were gonna try and make something happen. Personally i`d like to see more tear down tech for record setting cars and really tighten up on each cars appearance, I`ll volunteer to be the first as a show of good faith. This class is getting tougher and tougher with BES built Fords and guy`s like Mr.Carey who have to drive to be #1. I know Barton is building a money no object 9000+rpm Hemi for a racer to run in FAST, I know two other guy`s who are cloning my engine to run next year, Jon Kaase doing work,etc,etc. It`s gonna be a blood bath next year. 
Dave Dudek 1st Factory Stock legal car in the 10`s!!! [/b] FAST & Factory Stock Rules: www.fastraces.org FAST 69 Hemi RR 9.98@139
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: bwdst6]
#819788
10/05/10 04:58 PM
10/05/10 04:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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This is not a bashing question, but one I will ask as I am curious. Do the Mustangs that run in NHRA stock eliminator run this same suspension mod? If not why is necessary for the FAST cars? I am pretty sure the 428 Cobra Jet cars run reasonably close to these cars.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#819790
10/05/10 05:42 PM
10/05/10 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881
Weddington, N.C.
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Still wondering about the Carb question I asked earlier....does that big Ford motor move through the single feed/dual Line OEM 780 VACUUM SECONDARY (see the picture) carb as per the rules? It may have been legal in FAST to run (for Ex) an 800cfm Q-jet instead of the OEM 650....as long as it remained visually correct (you can't mill the choke horn but you could remove the choke plate, etc) but the fuel lines still needed to be routed as per OEM....The 429's 780 had a unique Bowl mounted single filter and series-fed fuel bowls, even if you run an 850 VS that flowed 1000cfm but you can see it'd be tough (but probably not impossible) to feed if the lines for an 800 hp motor were routed per the factory. There was also a stipulation of "No VISABLE Traction aid", which means no ladder/slapper bars but (for example) 90/10 shocks in the front and fake/empty batteries up front (which are both CLEARLY traction aids  ) are obviously ok. I'm thinkin a sherical rod end on the strut rods would PROBABLY be ok if I was teching but back then (2005-2006) I think there would be a lot of chin music from the other competitors about it.
Last edited by Streetwize; 10/05/10 05:49 PM.
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#819791
10/05/10 05:45 PM
10/05/10 05:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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I believe you are missing my point. I am well aware that we are talking apples and oranges. But what the Ford camp states is that these modifications are necessary to be safe. And what I am asking is do the Mustangs that run NHRA stock have this safety modification? Or would this safty modification be legal in NHRA Stock.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: 10.02 @ 139.02 ... the black Road Runner goes FASTer
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#819793
10/05/10 07:40 PM
10/05/10 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 641
Bergen County NJ
NoJoke
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 641
Bergen County NJ
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Quote:
Sorry but there isn't a stock stroke HEMI that will compete with the top dogs in the class. As Monte said going to take some tinkering to gain cubes in a stock HEMI block, but it can be done. If you can get creative and get 501cubes out of a small block, why not in a HEMI? You can bet BES used every trick in the book on that 460 block...
Whats about a SS Hemi its 12:1 comp its a stock stroke Steel heads and all....You dont think that can make more power?
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