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1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
#810027
09/21/10 06:03 AM
09/21/10 06:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
1964Polara
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
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Facing dilemma of a 1968 Fury III with Power Brakes but Drums on all 4 corners I'm looking to upgrade to a Disc Brake Setup with lots of stopping power. Scarebird & SSBC Setup seems to be unsificient Braking power for german Autobahn with a 2,76 rear... Following this article http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.htmlit shall be possible to swap the complete Disc Brakes from a 1973 C-Body....but can I use also some from a 1975 Newport donor car which I have access to?
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Andrewh]
#810029
09/21/10 10:26 AM
09/21/10 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
Iron Station, NC
furygt
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
Iron Station, NC
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You need the disc brake set up from a '70 - '73 C Body to do this swap. The '73 set up is preferred by many but only because new rotors are less expensive than for the '70 - '72 rotors, however the '70 - '72 rotors have come down in price. There are other aftermarket kits out there. You may want to do some seaching or posting on www.cbodydrydock.comBill
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Andrewh]
#810031
09/21/10 03:20 PM
09/21/10 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,357
Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
hemi71x
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,357
Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
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Quote:
The spindles and such won't work from a 75.
About the only thing that might be usable is the booster and master, but then you won't be able to down shift from drive into 2 or 1 if you have a column shift car.
What's different in the design of lets say, a 74-75 spindle, and a 73 and earlier spindle.
In what way are they different, and why won't they work? 
I would like to know, as people always ask about this swap, and i don't know the answer to the spindle question.
RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Andrewh]
#810035
09/22/10 01:13 AM
09/22/10 01:13 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
there was however a person that found that late model van spindles, the ones that use the 73 rotors, turned out to bolt up too. but I don't have the exact details on that.
I guess that would be me, but there are other issues to deal with that make it a hard swap. One thing is that the '74-up C's/trucks used a larger upper ball joint than the earlier C's. The '74 C's and trucks also used a screw-in type lower ball joint that moves the lower attach point of the knuckle outward about 1/2". The nice thing about the swap is the big calipers, my '67 New Yorker stopped as well as the Honda Accord hatchback I used to drive around, and that's saying something. 
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#810036
09/22/10 07:35 AM
09/22/10 07:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
1964Polara
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
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Quote:
Quote:
there was however a person that found that late model van spindles, the ones that use the 73 rotors, turned out to bolt up too. but I don't have the exact details on that.
I guess that would be me, but there are other issues to deal with that make it a hard swap. One thing is that the '74-up C's/trucks used a larger upper ball joint than the earlier C's. The '74 C's and trucks also used a screw-in type lower ball joint that moves the lower attach point of the knuckle outward about 1/2". The nice thing about the swap is the big calipers, my '67 New Yorker stopped as well as the Honda Accord hatchback I used to drive around, and that's saying something.
Hmm lets say I would have a complete 1974 Chrysler Town & Country with 440cui...... May I swap the full braking system including Upper & Lower Control Arms? Anybody tried this?
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: 1964Polara]
#810037
09/22/10 08:51 AM
09/22/10 08:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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Quote:
May I swap the full braking system including Upper & Lower Control Arms? Anybody tried this?
Can't say I have ever heard of anyone that insane. 
Doesn't it get to a point where all the fabrication outweigh the benefits? That's a lot of work.
I had a '66 Fury where I chose to completely rebuild 100% of the manual drum system. Would stop on a dime plus a penny. Close enough for all of my type of driving.
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Commando1]
#810038
09/23/10 03:26 AM
09/23/10 03:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
1964Polara
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
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Quote:
Quote:
May I swap the full braking system including Upper & Lower Control Arms? Anybody tried this?
Can't say I have ever heard of anyone that insane.
Doesn't it get to a point where all the fabrication outweigh the benefits? That's a lot of work.
I had a '66 Fury where I chose to completely rebuild 100% of the manual drum system. Would stop on a dime plus a penny. Close enough for all of my type of driving.
Never had a closer look at a 74 C-Body so maybe you're right if there is too much fabrication I wasn't aware of. The 74 donor car would offer also a nice 440, 727 and 8,75 axle at a decent price...
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Twostick]
#810041
09/23/10 10:13 AM
09/23/10 10:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,587
St. John's Newfoundland
440newport
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,587
St. John's Newfoundland
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Quote:
If the pick up points on the 74 frame are the same as the 68 it would be just a matter of swapping old control arms for new. No fab involved. So has anybody actually compared the 2 frames to see if a 74 control arm will fit a 68?
Kevin
I doubt they would fit. 65-73 uses cam bolts on the UCA to adjust them, while 74-78 has a shaft through the UCA that is slotted in the K frame to adjust it like an F/M/J body. 2 totally different setups.
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Twostick]
#810043
09/23/10 10:32 AM
09/23/10 10:32 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Here's spec. comparisons for the various C-body discs, factory and Scarebird (from the M.A. article). Note that any larger diameter rotors would require a wheel size increase. Rick E. 
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: not_a_charger]
#810045
09/23/10 11:23 AM
09/23/10 11:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Correct, discs run at higher pressure and a drum-brake booster isn't sufficient. Reportedly it will deceptively work for normal driving, but be inadequate for a hard stop (which is believable).
Which booster to use depends on the car. For instance, the large-diameter flat booster that I have seen on 71-73 Cs will interfere with column-shift linkage on a 68 (it will prevent the linkage from hitting 1st). My 2 conversions have been manual disc and PB but 4-speed, so I have no further info.
Also, anyone reading & planning should be aware that, unlike other Mopars, in a C-body the pedal and bracketry are different between PB and MB. Pedal setup must be correct!
Last edited by Fury Fan; 09/23/10 11:30 AM.
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Fury Fan]
#810046
09/23/10 11:36 AM
09/23/10 11:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,866
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
not_a_charger
Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
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Mr. Big Shot Moparts Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,866
Puttin' on the foil in Charles...
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I've been talking to another Moparts member about buying a car from him (66 Fury wagon), but I can't find anyone who has the correct booster. There's one listed on Ebay that says it fits disc/drum setups "except field installed." I'm not sure what that means...maybe converted from 4 wheel drums, as opposed to factory installed disc/drum? I emailed them, but have yet to get a reply.
Earning every penny of that moderator paycheck.
DBAP
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Twostick]
#810055
09/23/10 11:50 PM
09/23/10 11:50 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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You could look at this kit http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions.htmlI spoke with the owner at Carlisle a few years ago and he said it will work with the drum brake booster because the GM calipers it uses have pistons that are much larger than Mopar ones and don't require as much pressure to get the same clamping force. Nice looking kit. Laser cut brackets, ( the Scarebird brackets if they haven't updated them look like at least 2 pieces welded together) aluminum hubs and it uses your drum brake spindles. 13" rotors optional. For the ultimate you need to call member AndyF http://www.arengineering.com/caliper/viper2/viper_ab13.html for one of his Viper kits. He doesn't list a kit for a C-body but I have heard of guys adapting a Wilwood B-body kit to a C-body by either drilling out an existing hole or relocating one in the bracket so maybe he could do the same. Kevin
Last edited by Twostick; 09/24/10 12:05 AM.
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#810057
10/07/10 06:45 AM
10/07/10 06:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
1964Polara
OP
enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 296
Germany
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Quote:
I'd be very cautious re: the booster. The comment above (fine in normal driving, watch out in emergency) are well taken. From my experience, you need a dual-tandem or large-diameter booster, even with the late Dodge Truck calipers (Scarebird).
Pix of completed Scarebird setup (from Mopar Action article) attached.
Rick  
Mark from Scarebirds writes me:
"I attached the info sheet - quite a bit is available in Deutschland, check to see if rotors are amongst them as they are very expensive to ship int... Your stock booster will work fine with a disc master."
The Info sheet says:
"Master cylinder and proportioning valve specs are quite varied. I would recommend 1976 Cordoba or similar disc master cylinder for best performance match for 65-68 cars, and use the stock disc master for later vehicles."
Hmmm a 1976 Cordoba Disc/Drum Master with a 1968 Drum/Drum Booster shall work??????
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: 1964Polara]
#810058
10/07/10 09:16 AM
10/07/10 09:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Based on the 2 quotes, your assessment would be logically correct. However, using a drum booster goes against everything I've read about a disc conversion. I have read many places that discs require higher line pressure to operate than drums do. The boosters were 'increased' for disc applications, and this can be verified easily - every C-body parts listing will show different boosters between disc and drum. There's gotta be a reason the engineers did that. Many years ago I swapped to discs and installed a '71-73 disc booster on a manual-brake pedal. Pedal effort was very light and the car had excellent braking performance in normal/agressive driving. Control was good due to the long pedal travel. I would be curious how a drumbrake booster might stiffen up the pedal feel in that application. However, for someone doing it from scratch, if you're going to deviate from factory combinations, be prepared to do some test panic stops, and be prepared to swap some parts out if necessary. I wouldn't be scared to try a few combos as I have a handful of boosters and rebuilt master cylinders are cheap. If I was outside the USA, though, I'd try to find the proven factory combination of parts the first time. 
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Re: 1968 Fury Disc Brake Swap from a 1975 Newport
[Re: Andrewh]
#810060
10/09/10 04:50 PM
10/09/10 04:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,151
Cruising!
QuickDodge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,151
Cruising!
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In regard to swapping the late C-body disks onto the early C-body, there MIGHT be a way to do it. According to this post in the tech archives, it might be possible to swap the entire front sub-frame from the 75 into a 68. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/susp/2.htmlI've NOT tried this, or even measured it yet. But I really like the idea of swapping in a later subframe.
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