I want a 5 speed!

I have a 72 Duster, 318 with a 904 right now.
What is the cheapest option?

I thought it would be a T5 but after hours searching it doesn't seem like anyone is running them.

What are the options without spending 3k?
Thanks Jeff

cheapest would be a 5 spd out of a mustang GT in the junk yard. grab everything off it that you can. I think they run the T-5 right? all you need is a mopar bell, flywheel and clutch set up.

what's a junkyard T-5 going for anyway? $500? $800? it's gotta be cheap, since a brand new TKO gearbox can be ordered from Jegs or Summitt for around 1800.

if the 318 is not built up very much the T-5 should handle it ok, but the reason most people don't like the T5 is if you look at the torque rating, it's only good to like 300 ft lbs, and most of our Mopar engines are built up enough taht they far exceed that and require the beef of the TKO500 or 600.

oh, I forgot about Dakota/Ram transmissions! they are already set up for a mopar small block, the NV3500 might be good. the AX15 from dakota V6s is a small transmission but would be questionable behind the 318.

The down sides to the Ram/Van 5-speeds like the 3500 and AX-5 & AX-15 are that they have nice truck gear ratios (3.8-4.x:1 first gears), and they're physically large boxes in spite of relatively low torque capacities. Major floor and t-bar X-member surgery WILL be required with those transmissions. However, the architecture of those transmissions is shared across a wide range of other Aisin/Warner boxes, including the ones used in the new Chebby Colorado trucks, and the Solstice/Sky roadster twins, among many others.

You can see how large the trans is, and track the progress that Buschi340 is making on his install of a similar Toyota Supra Turbo transmission in this thread. I'm going to install the same trans, only because I got a better deal on it than any of the T-5's in my area... that said, T-5's can be had for cheap, I've been quoted $3-400 for nice used units at local salvage yards, and some pick-n-pull yards sell them for $75 or so. I think even current V-6 mustangs still use the T-5, so it's a solid, stout, light transmission with a huge amount of aftermarket support. I think there will still be some cutting involved on the t-bar X-member, though. Seems that there just isn't much you can do about hacking up an A-body.

Clair

I thought I read in another thread that the T5s shifter would line up with the cross member on an a-body?

I would recommend evaluating the true horsepower and torque of your car and start from there. Be honest and choose wisely. You may perform the best swap imaginable, but the first time you hammer the car and blow the transmission, is it worth it doing it over and over again. The T5 is rated at approx. 270 lbs.ft. of torque, which a warmed up 318 can approach easily these days. My advise would be a TKO-500. One thing to remember is to identify the weak link, if it's not the transmission, does it become the u-joints, the drive shaft, the rear end (center section, axles), etc.

It might... I think OzHemi had to notch a wee bit out of his t-bar x-member to fit the T-5 behind his Hemi6. There may also be some potential to swap tailhousings with something from an S-10 truck or something that pulls the shifter tower forward. Maybe too far forward, but it's something to check. I know the guys over on slant6.org have done a lot of work swapping T-5's in to early A's, so it might be worth a look over there to see what they did.

Clair

doesn`t a stock late 60`s/early 70`s 318 make 320ft.lbs. of torque?

Nice work OZ! Great photos.

Thanks

Years ago when I did it, I had a thread with all the pics of the progress...went pretty good (and did the rack and pinion swap just before the 5 speed)

OZ, how much HP are you putting through your T5?
I know my 318 does put out that much power. Sure seems like there is alot of tweeked Mustangs that ran them with out any issues.

I heard from a few people that the 4cyl Mustangs have the same trans as the 5.0. Does anyone know if that is true.

Do you have a parts list I should grab from the donor car?, and what other parts I should start gathering.

My car has a 904 in it right now. I just bought some pedals. Do I need the Z bar?

Thanks again Jeff

Somewhere around 280 - 310 horsepower I would estimate..

I am not drag racing it, but have driven the car somewhat hard and had no issues. Car weight is less then some US cars that might help too, at abit under 3k pounds.

The 4 cyl 'Stangs use a different length input shaft from memory, different ratios then a 5.0 and not sure if they are even WC boxes?
The SVO cars "may" be an exception but I don't really know for sure.

OK, a 5.0 it is.

Do you have a parts list I should grab from the donor car?, and what other parts I should start gathering.

Jeff

Well, for my swap the only thing I got from the Mustang was the trans itself. I used a bellhousing from Oz to adapt it, a new clutch, and a standard Hemi-6 flywheel basically.
You'll need the Z bar like you mentioned too (unless you plan to go hydraulic)
I used the stock mustang shifter box, but was always going to upgrade to a Pro 5.0 one.

You'll have to make the trans crossmember too. I made mine up like you can see, and used a Chev universal trans mount with it

I think I beter ask a few more Q's. I have found that when I don't it ends up costing me more cash and headaches.

Are all small block bell housings the same(318, 340, 360)?

For the clutch and pressure plate do I just use stock mopar 4 speed stuff or ???

I would like to go mechanical for the clutch. I think the T5's are hydraulic. How do you hook it up mechanical?

Sorry about all the Q's, I just want to learn as much as I can before I start the project.

Jeff

The small blocks are all the same bellhousing bolt pattern on the block, yes..

T5's where cable opperating the clutch fork (at least the 5.0 stuff was) you can get a hydraulic conversion if you wanted...

On the clutch, I use a Mopar pressure plate and a disc the same outside diameter as the factory one, but with the Ford splines for the input shaft

Do you have pics where the cable mounts to your Z bar?

Where or how do you get Mopar clutch with Ford T5 splines.

Thanks Again, Jeff

Will a T5 bolt up to a Mopar bellhousing?

I'm sure you have to redrill it. I don't know if it needs to be machined in any other way.
Jeff

Start with a QuickTime bellhousing to mount a T-5, and fill it full of Mopar linkage to keep it simple. You'll want to check what input shaft length is correct for the QT, but the longest - and probably most Mopar-friendly - units are the 7.85" input shaft units. These were typically used on the 94-up Mustangs, and some aftermarket units. One of the best bets would probably be the 1999-up T-5's that come behind the 3.8L V6 cars. They're rated at 300 lb-ft, and carry the PN 1352-260. They come with an electronic speedo, but maybe those parts can be swapped with cable-output parts.

If you do the swap, document the snot out of it as there are lots of other folks interested, too.

Clair

This will be a winter project, I'm just gathering parts now. I will document it if no one else does.

What makes the 99 trans better than the 94? I have found some good deals on both, but I can get a 94 cheaper.

I'm can't believe that more people have not done this swap.
Jeff

If the tag # on the 94 is -219, -242**, -246, or -253****, then there's nothing functionally different between the -260 unit used in 1999-up Mustang V6's.

** NOTE: The -242 trans was used in the 94-95 Mustang Cobra only.
**** NOTE: the -253 trans was an aftermarket trans sold through FMS, and they're not common. Rated at 310 lb-ft continuous.

All those units have the longest input at 7.85", so they'd be the easiest to adapt to a Mopar bellhousing. If you have - or can get - a shallower bellhousing, then you can use some of the other short input T-5's and pull the trans a little closer to the block, helping the t-bar X-member situation.

This swap hasn't happened more often because the (undeserved, IMHO) perception is that the T-5 is a weak trans. Plus, there may be no way around some surgery to install the thing, and if you've got to cut, why not go ahead and get one of the beefier Tremecs out there now.

Clair

The '87-'92 Mustang 5.0L were rated at 300 foot pounds of torque at 3,000 rpm stock from the factory. Lots of guys bolted slicks on those cars when they were new and hit the strip. The 8.8 ford rear would typically go out before the trans would. Most T5 trans problems were from guys trying to knock the right headlight out when shifting into third.

I am the original owner of mine and I was quite young when I bought it. I have run it down the strip power shifting (hold gas to the floor and going through the gears) more times then I can count. Not to mention power shifting it on the streets. Today it shifts better now then it did when it was new and the trans has had nothing but fluid changes. Of course I am wiser now and don't beat on the car like that any more.

Now what I don't know is if the 5.0L Mustang T5s had stronger internals then T5s found in other cars?

When I did my Tremec swap I used a Jeep 4.0L TO bearing that fit retainer tube perfectly. Probably would work the same for a mustang tranny as I think my tremec and a ford tranny share the tube diameter. I would highly recomend upgrading to a steel bearing retainer if your T-5 is alum.

I was going to suggest the 94 & up T5 because of the longer input shaft too. But an FYI, the 4 cyl boxes are WC's but have a lower torque rating due to steeper 1st gears. They have minor differences in input length but the big difference is the pilot at the tip is a different diameter.

As for adapting the T-5 to the engine, why not look for a used scattershield. Thats what I did with my tremec.

I removed the bearing retainer and had it cut on a lathe to mopar size so it fit the bell. Then I mocked it up, marked the bolt holes and drilled thru the bell with a hand drill. Then I bolted it up with flange nuts inside and tack welded them in place. Easy as pie.

As for the clutch disk, you will probably have to buy a mopar pressure plate and a corasponding diameter disk with ford splines.