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Moving steering box over, any problems ??? #788323 08/30/10 03:02 PM 08/30/10 03:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH Red383 OP top fuel
Red383 OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH	I�m thinking about moving the steering box mount on my K-frame over towards the frame rail to gain a little exhaust clearance. It will probably move the box over .5�-.75�, maybe 1� max. If I did this, would I see any steering geometry issues? This is using the factory steering box and arm. I�m thinking no, cause the difference could be made up in the tie rods. What do you guys think? Thanks

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Red383] #788324 08/30/10 03:20 PM 08/30/10 03:20 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 679 N.E Indiana R repad super street
repad super street R Joined: May 2004 Posts: 679 N.E Indiana	Since the pitman arm fastens to the center link, wouldn't you have to move the idler arm over also? How will you address the steering column alignment?

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: repad] #788325 08/30/10 05:46 PM 08/30/10 05:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,885 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,885 Ontario, Canada	I'm no expert on suspension or steering geometry but thinking about it logically I don't think there should be any issues. Imagine that everything is attached and the wheels are centered. Moving the box over would turn the column/wheel slightly, leaving everything else normal. I believe the lock-to-lock is controlled by the lower balljoints so no issues there. I think the only issue will be that in the centered position the center link will be a tad closer to the pan than normal so turning in one direction the centerlink just might hot the pan. I don't think 1/2" over that length will change column alignment a noticeable amount. However, keep in mind that the idler arm and pitman arm are parallel and remain so through the entire turning arc. Moving either one over will change this unless the center link is lengthened the same amount you move the box. Still I don't think that would have a drastic affect on anything.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: repad] #788326 08/30/10 11:26 PM 08/30/10 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH Red383 OP top fuel
Red383 OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH	I'm guessing the column has some adjustment in it and should allow a little movement.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Red383] #788327 08/30/10 11:50 PM 08/30/10 11:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	To keep the steering wheel centered and the left vs right turning circle the same you will need to adjust the tie rods to compensate for the steering box offset. The tie rods don't have a lot of adjustment. Plus there is the steering column alignment issue. Yes, there is some adjustment possible with the column but it also is limited. If your car isn't made to "blueprint" specs (whose is?) some of that adjustment possibility may be used up by production tolerences. I think there must be a better/easier way to gain header clearnace.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: ahy] #788328 08/31/10 12:04 AM 08/31/10 12:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,885 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,885 Ontario, Canada	Quote: To keep the steering wheel centered and the left vs right turning circle the same you will need to adjust the tie rods to compensate for the steering box offset. To keep the wheel centered you remove the wheel and put it back on straight up (or close to it)!! There should only be a minor tie rod adjustment necessary to center the wheel.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Stanton] #788329 08/31/10 12:07 AM 08/31/10 12:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 798 Houston TX G GregCon super stock
GregCon super stock G Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 798 Houston TX	You're really opening a can of worms when you start playing with steering geometry. Will it still steer? Yes. Will it adopt some funny behavior? Yes.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Stanton] #788330 08/31/10 12:07 AM 08/31/10 12:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	My wheel ('70E) has a master spline so it only goes on one way... no adjustment possible. Perhaps others are different?

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: ahy] #788331 08/31/10 12:14 AM 08/31/10 12:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: My wheel ('70E) has a master spline so it only goes on one way... no adjustment possible. Perhaps others are different? Nope.. Most anything newer than the mid fifties has a master spline.. Then the is the fact that the steering gear has one small area where the clearance between the gear teeth is a tighter fit.. That is the center position.. move away from that spot & there is more lash because in a turn the feedback pressure from the wheels will keep the gears tight... Going straight the gear needs to control the wheels more closely.. Then I gotta wonder what you plan to do about the frame rail & the steering box trying to occupy the same space...

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Red383] #788332 08/31/10 12:31 AM 08/31/10 12:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	If it's just the box that needs to be moved a ujoint steering shaft might be a plan. I hear borgeson (sp) is excellent quality and has a good selection. That'd keep the column alignment straight. I think you could lengthen 1 tie rod sleeve and shorten the other to keep the box at the center point w the wheels straight ahead. It'll take some fabbing live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Stanton] #788333 08/31/10 12:59 AM 08/31/10 12:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA Jim_Lusk I Live Here
Jim_Lusk I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA	Quote: To keep the wheel centered you remove the wheel and put it back on straight up (or close to it)!! There should only be a minor tie rod adjustment necessary to center the wheel. BAD IDEA even if possible. With the wheels straight the steering gear needs to be in the center of its travel. This is accomplished by adjusting the tie rods (lengthen one while shortening the other the same amount)

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #788334 08/31/10 09:03 AM 08/31/10 09:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH Red383 OP top fuel
Red383 OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH	Quote: Then I gotta wonder what you plan to do about the frame rail & the steering box trying to occupy the same space... There is at least a 1" gap between the steering box mount and frame rail. So they shouldn't take up the same space. Thanks for all the info guys, I may have to rethink this.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Red383] #788335 08/31/10 10:47 AM 08/31/10 10:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,237 Looking for a way out of Middl... IMGTX I Live Here
IMGTX I Live Here Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,237 Looking for a way out of Middl...	It can open a can of worms with steering geometry. Assuming you have power steering. Ideally you would want to move the box keeping the center line of the input shaft parallel to the center line of the car. Then lengthen the center link to compensate. This would cause one tie rod end to be shorter than the other. Lengthening the space between the idler arm end and tie rod end could help. There is some flexability to the idler arm Pitman Arm geometry. (think T/A & AAR with a longer pitman arm). But there is no adjustment in the stock E body column for offset steering boxes. You could build a column with parts from a later model truck/b body that has the rag joint but that rag joint wasn't designed to operate as a full time u-joint. It was for shifting caused by the column and gearbox being separated by rubber body/suspension mounts. A true U-joint would be better and should be easy to get from a junkyard column of some model. Maybe shimming the drivers side mount could net you a little more room. Also make sure the mount isn't bad and letting the headers settle too close to the power steering. Have you considered manual steering?

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: IMGTX] #788336 08/31/10 11:13 AM 08/31/10 11:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: It can open a can of worms with steering geometry. Assuming you have power steering. Ideally you would want to move the box keeping the center line of the input shaft parallel to the center line of the car. Then lengthen the center link to compensate. This would cause one tie rod end to be shorter than the other. Lengthening the space between the idler arm end and tie rod end could help Another thing to consider when you start lengthening & shortening tierods your gonna create bump steer issues.. Find some headers that fit...

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #788337 08/31/10 11:22 AM 08/31/10 11:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,237 Looking for a way out of Middl... IMGTX I Live Here
IMGTX I Live Here Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,237 Looking for a way out of Middl...	Quote: Quote: It can open a can of worms with steering geometry. Assuming you have power steering. Ideally you would want to move the box keeping the center line of the input shaft parallel to the center line of the car. Then lengthen the center link to compensate. This would cause one tie rod end to be shorter than the other. Lengthening the space between the idler arm end and tie rod end could help Another thing to consider when you start lengthening & shortening tierods your gonna create bump steer issues.. Find some headers that fit... True.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: IMGTX] #788338 08/31/10 03:30 PM 08/31/10 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH Red383 OP top fuel
Red383 OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH	This is I am installing a 5.7 Hemi in an A-body, and I'm looking for a way to keep the power steering. With TTI headers, it looks like I can make it work if I move the steering box over a bit. I will need to do more measuring yet, but I wanted to get some feedback from others before I cut the mount off. I wonder what the factory tolerances were on this mount. Probably +/- 3" ;-) Manual steering is probably what will happen, I'm just looking for options.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Red383] #788339 08/31/10 03:39 PM 08/31/10 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,955 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,955 Grand Prairie,Texas	No way there was that much tolerance. Maybe a 1/2".

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: Red383] #788340 08/31/10 04:50 PM 08/31/10 04:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,826 NY usa 5 540challenger master
540challenger master 5 Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,826 NY usa	Quote: This is I am installing a 5.7 Hemi in an A-body, and I'm looking for a way to keep the power steering. With TTI headers, it looks like I can make it work if I move the steering box over a bit. I will need to do more measuring yet, but I wanted to get some feedback from others before I cut the mount off. I wonder what the factory tolerances were on this mount. Probably +/- 3" ;-) Manual steering is probably what will happen, I'm just looking for options. Wow thats alot of movin, Maybe try an aftermarket rack and pinion with and aftermarket steering colunm that way you could use a D-shaft and universal joints to move the shaft around the exhaust.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: 540challenger] #788341 08/31/10 07:16 PM 08/31/10 07:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH Red383 OP top fuel
Red383 OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,629 OH	+/- 3" tolerance was a joke. I wouldn't move the box that much, but 3/8" would probably be just right.

Re: Moving steering box over, any problems ??? [Re: repad] #788342 08/31/10 08:18 PM 08/31/10 08:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 798 Houston TX G GregCon super stock
GregCon super stock G Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 798 Houston TX	I'll confess that in this car I did move the box about 3/8" but I did it by tilting the box on it's axis so the pivot point of the pitman arm stayed about where it always was. I also moved the idler arm bracket the same amount in the same direction. I did this to gain a little clearance in an area where too much was going on with the headers and dual line oil system. It drove fine. But I'd always try to do something different first. 6169741-engineleft.jpg (28 downloads)

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