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Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? ...AGAIN! #74819
06/17/08 01:40 AM
06/17/08 01:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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tko 600.

I made a power shift from 1st to 2nd, and messed up the timing of events. now I'm stuck in 2nd gear, and the shift lever feels stuck, lots of resistance in up and down motion, but seems to still move side to side like it's in neutral.

anyone know what I might have done to this tranny, and what it will take to fix it?

It happened on my way to work tonight, at the end of my road, so I was able to turn around come home, jump in my other car and drive to work.

I haven't looked at anything yet.

...Anyone want a 500 hp BB '98Dakota 5 spd? I'll make you a deal on it!

Last edited by 70Cuda383; 06/21/08 05:39 PM.

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Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: 70Cuda383] #74820
06/17/08 08:46 AM
06/17/08 08:46 AM
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Posts: 227
Tennessee
rj8806 Offline
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Quote:

tko 600.

I made a power shift from 1st to 2nd, and messed up the timing of events. now I'm stuck in 2nd gear, and the shift lever feels stuck, lots of resistance in up and down motion, but seems to still move side to side like it's in neutral.

anyone know what I might have done to this tranny, and what it will take to fix it?

It happened on my way to work tonight, at the end of my road, so I was able to turn around come home, jump in my other car and drive to work.

I haven't looked at anything yet.

...Anyone want a 500 hp BB '98Dakota 5 spd? I'll make you a deal on it!





My guess is you over shifted it and the shift dog went beyond it's stop. On the fron of the tail housing, forward of your shifter, is a silver access cover with 4 allen head screws. Remove that cover. When you look down in there, you'll see the 3 shift rails. If it is stuck in 2nd, the rail on the passenger side will be forward of the other 2. Simply take a flat tip screw driver and pop it backwards so that it lines up with the other 2. What this does, is knock the transmission back into nuetral. From there, test shift it and make sure it is good. Then re-apply RTV to the cover and bolt it back down.


Richard
Tech Support

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: rj8806] #74821
06/17/08 08:48 AM
06/17/08 08:48 AM
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Ansonia, CT
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CJK440 Offline
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Then perhaps buy a shifter with adjustable stops on the stick???


2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: CJK440] #74822
06/17/08 09:14 AM
06/17/08 09:14 AM
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Quote:

Then perhaps buy a shifter with adjustable stops on the stick???





Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: rj8806] #74823
06/17/08 09:39 AM
06/17/08 09:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

tko 600.

I made a power shift from 1st to 2nd, and messed up the timing of events. now I'm stuck in 2nd gear, and the shift lever feels stuck, lots of resistance in up and down motion, but seems to still move side to side like it's in neutral.

anyone know what I might have done to this tranny, and what it will take to fix it?

It happened on my way to work tonight, at the end of my road, so I was able to turn around come home, jump in my other car and drive to work.

I haven't looked at anything yet.

...Anyone want a 500 hp BB '98Dakota 5 spd? I'll make you a deal on it!





My guess is you over shifted it and the shift dog went beyond it's stop. On the fron of the tail housing, forward of your shifter, is a silver access cover with 4 allen head screws. Remove that cover. When you look down in there, you'll see the 3 shift rails. If it is stuck in 2nd, the rail on the passenger side will be forward of the other 2. Simply take a flat tip screw driver and pop it backwards so that it lines up with the other 2. What this does, is knock the transmission back into nuetral. From there, test shift it and make sure it is good. Then re-apply RTV to the cover and bolt it back down.


Richard
Tech Support




Thanks richard, that's exactly what happened! I got home this morning and started taking stuff apart in preparation to pull the tranny, removed the shifter mechanism, and figured, "well, let's take off that next cover and see what I find" I found those rails you are refering to, and yes, it was stuck full forward position, I pryed it back and the truck started rolling on me...with me hanging out of the passenger side door!! the house has a walk out basement, so there's a pretty good hill at the end of the driveway that g oes down into the yard. at least my E brake works!

I actually just came on here to post what I found, and what I did to seemingly fix it, and to ask, is there any permanent damage to the tranny from this? what do I do in the future to avoid this problem? NOT power shift it? (that kinda takes the fun out of a stick shift vehicle now...doesn't it?!)

I was told these Tremec TKOs were tough, yet one of the first few times I power shift it, it jams itself into gear like it was some finiky, fragile european gear box that's more at home on an alfa romero. I wanted american tough, bang the gears like you stole it, burning rubber through 3 gears, big block stroker drive it like you stole it.

are you telling me that I need to drive this truck like it's a bently?

mostly, i just want to know if the gear box is ok, or if I need to have it checked out. does the gear box have some sort of mechanism to prevent this from happening and it failed? or was I just too hard on it when I shifted?


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Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: 70Cuda383] #74824
06/18/08 04:04 AM
06/18/08 04:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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so...nobody knows why this happened, or how to prevent it, other than to NOT powershift a transmission that I thought was ok to powershift?


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Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: 70Cuda383] #74825
06/18/08 06:54 AM
06/18/08 06:54 AM

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I built a wicked 351 windsor Mustang and he put a tko 600 in it. Have problems hitting 3rd gear at 7200 rpms, called tremec and they said we were over revving the engine and it aint gonna go into 3rd that high of an rpm. We've got it stuck in 2nd many times too. Put a shifter with adjustable stops on it to prevent that, but still missing 3rd on the spray aint pretty, thank God for rev limiters. Doubt ya did any damage, but be easy with it.

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: 70Cuda383] #74826
06/18/08 08:29 AM
06/18/08 08:29 AM
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Tennessee
rj8806 Offline
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What color is the shift tower? If it is red, I can send you an adjustable shift stop that will prevent that from happening again.

These tranny's are built tough and no, I am not suggesting to baby it. Why it happens, I'm not sure but I have run itno this a few times in the past.

You didn't damage the gear box so don't worry about that, just let let me know what color the tower is so I can help you out.

Richard
Tech Support

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? #74827
06/18/08 08:36 AM
06/18/08 08:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 227
Tennessee
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Quote:

I built a wicked 351 windsor Mustang and he put a tko 600 in it. Have problems hitting 3rd gear at 7200 rpms, called tremec and they said we were over revving the engine and it aint gonna go into 3rd that high of an rpm. We've got it stuck in 2nd many times too. Put a shifter with adjustable stops on it to prevent that, but still missing 3rd on the spray aint pretty, thank God for rev limiters. Doubt ya did any damage, but be easy with it.





The biggest issue when going from a 4 speed to a TKO is retraining yourself how to shift a 5 speed.
On a 4 speed, when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, you push the stick up, over and up again. If you do that with a TKO, you will have the same results you experienced. The gates are so close together on the TKO, you literally have to re-learn how to shift. Next time, when in 2nd, simply slam the stick straight forward and it will automatically find 3rd on it's own. On my Mustang(with a TKO) I use this technique and I do not miss the gear ever. I use the palm of my hand at about the 7:00 position on the ball and slam it forward from there. Practice this technique under normal driving conditions until you are comfortable with it and then try to power shift it. I think you'll see an immediate difference right off the bat.

Also keep in mind, the TKO doesn't like shifts upwards of 6000K so my technique may or may not work if you are attempting to shift above that limit.

Let me know how that worked out for you.


Richard
Tech Support

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: rj8806] #74828
06/18/08 11:28 AM
06/18/08 11:28 AM

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Cool, thanks. His car has been a 5 speed all along, but then again we added a whole lot of torque and HP lately. I'll get him to try that. I think alot of his problems is that he has a regular size 8 ball for a shifter knob. I bcant even hardly get ahold of it and control it. Told him to try a small ball or a t-handle but he loves the 8-ball.

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? #74829
06/18/08 02:51 PM
06/18/08 02:51 PM
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Behind the 8-ball, at that!
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Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: dogdays] #74830
06/18/08 07:43 PM
06/18/08 07:43 PM
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arizona, usa
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i have a tko500 in my b body no problems banging 1st to 2nd however, as richard stated 2nd to 3rd takes a little practice. i only rev to 5800 so i have not had any shifting problems. as a matter of fact i spoke with richard today about my shift tower and he is sending me a 3rd gen shift tower. he's been the best to contact and work with at keisler. thanks again richard.

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: lokalik] #74831
06/18/08 07:49 PM
06/18/08 07:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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my shifter is red anodized.

how much will this cost me?

note: this is not a keisler kit, and I haven't sent any money to Keisler--I put this into a big block Dakota, which Keisler does not make a kit for. I only put keisler in the title since they seem to be the most experienced TKO folks on the board.

glad to know that I didn't damage anything and that it happens to others too.

now...how much is that newer shift mechanism?


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Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: 70Cuda383] #74832
06/19/08 09:51 AM
06/19/08 09:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
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Tennessee
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Quote:

my shifter is red anodized.

how much will this cost me?

note: this is not a keisler kit, and I haven't sent any money to Keisler--I put this into a big block Dakota, which Keisler does not make a kit for. I only put keisler in the title since they seem to be the most experienced TKO folks on the board.

glad to know that I didn't damage anything and that it happens to others too.

now...how much is that newer shift mechanism?





I know you are not our customer, as I have said in the past, I am here to help any and all who need it regardless if you purchased from us or not.

The external shift stops are made of billet aluminum and sell for $49.95. Pretty cheap when you consider that it will prevent you from over shifting the transmission and possibly(not likely) damaging the transmission in the process.

I have 24 of them in stock and can ship anywhere you want.

I didn't see any instructions when I was looking for them but it is simple to setup. Keep in mind, this only works on the red Tremec tower. When looking at the top of the shifter tower, you have 2 straps with 2 starhead screws in each, holding them down to the tower itself. You will remove both straps and the black ring underneath it and install the billet shift stop. When you remove the 2 straps, there are 2 springs, 1 under each strap, be sure to leave those in place. bolt the billet shift stop down and you are done. To set the stops correctly, with the engine off, put the transmission in 3rd gear, back the head of the bolt out(towards the shifter stub) until it just contacts the stub and then lock down the nut so it cannot move. Next, put the transmission in 4th gear and do the same thing. Back the head of the bolt out(towards the stub) until it just contacts the stub and then tighten up the locknut. You are now done. Replace the shift handle and go drive it.

Let me know if I can answer any more questions.


Richard
Tech Support

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: lokalik] #74833
06/19/08 10:07 AM
06/19/08 10:07 AM
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rj8806 Offline
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Quote:

i have a tko500 in my b body no problems banging 1st to 2nd however, as richard stated 2nd to 3rd takes a little practice. i only rev to 5800 so i have not had any shifting problems. as a matter of fact i spoke with richard today about my shift tower and he is sending me a 3rd gen shift tower. he's been the best to contact and work with at keisler. thanks again richard.





superbirdclone....I packed up your tower yesterday myself and turned the paperwork into accounting. It will be shipping today.

I went one step further and bolted the tower to a new base plate for you. This way, all you have to do is remove the 4 bolts on your baseplate and pull the tower and plate up and off the transmission. Put a bead of silicone on around the edge of the new base plate and bolt it back down.

As I said on the phone, this new tower will solve your issues you told me about as well as feel night and day different from your current shifter. This one is much tighter and is spring loaded so that it will give it a more positive feel and crisper engagement when shifting.

Let me know how it worked out after you've installed it and drove it.


Richard
Tech Support

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: rj8806] #74834
06/20/08 01:38 AM
06/20/08 01:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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Thanks for the help. I'll have to get one of those on order. I was emphasising that I'm not a customer to you, because your post read like you were going to send me one for free, because you thought I was your customer and was having troubles.

I will gladly pay for one. and thanks for the help so far. mostly the piece of mind, knowing that I didn't break my tranny after just 1500 miles.


here's another question for you...Why is my TKO easier to shift when I DON'T use the clutch, than when I use it?

if I shift without the clutch, I just have to wait a split second for the RPMs to come down and it shifts like butter. smooth, almost effortless--just no fast powershifts when doing this.

but if I use the clutch, the shift effort is much higher, and that's why I jammed it in 2nd gear the other day--I was putting some "grunt" into the shift and put a little too much into it.

I have a hydraulic cammed, big block stroker with a stock electronic ignition set up, so there's almost NO WAY that I was over 6,000 rpms when I was shifting, it was probably more like 5000-5500.


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Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: 70Cuda383] #74835
06/20/08 08:40 AM
06/20/08 08:40 AM
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Ansonia, CT
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Quote:

here's another question for you...Why is my TKO easier to shift when I DON'T use the clutch, than when I use it?

if I shift without the clutch, I just have to wait a split second for the RPMs to come down and it shifts like butter. smooth, almost effortless--just no fast powershifts when doing this.

but if I use the clutch, the shift effort is much higher, and that's why I jammed it in 2nd gear the other day--I was putting some "grunt" into the shift and put a little too much into it.




Because without the clutch you are shifting when the gear speed is timed correctly to slide into gear, technically you don't even need the brass rings to shift that way.

When using the clutch, the gears are usually not timed speed wise and you are using the syncro to grab the gear and match the speed. It might take a bit to slow it down before the slider can fall into place.


2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: CJK440] #74836
06/21/08 09:59 AM
06/21/08 09:59 AM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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hmpf, ok. I just wondered because it was such a dramatic difference compared to other modern cars that I've driven--they are all equally, if not actually easier, to shift with the clutch than without. so when this transmission was the opposite, I didn't understand why.

but then again, the newer cars that I'm refering to, all made less than 200 hp and had wimpy transmissions.


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Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? [Re: 70Cuda383] #74837
06/21/08 10:51 AM
06/21/08 10:51 AM

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Thanks for the info Richard, He practiced shifting it like you said. Then we went racin. Came in the runner up in sportsman class.

Re: Tremec experts? Keisler guys maybe? #74838
06/21/08 05:39 PM
06/21/08 05:39 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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dangit. I did it again. I have proven to myself that I am clearly an idiot who should reconsider his choice of hobby.

I overshifted again...ok I thought, no big deal, I'll just yank it out of gear, afterall, shifting too far, too hard got it there, surely a good tug on it will pop it out of gear. yea, and straight into 1st gear again.

anyway, after much yanking since I was too lazy to pull over and try to fix it correctly, something let go.

here's what I found: (see attachment)

it's off the 3/4 fork and is easilly replaceable.

problem is, where did the missing tab go? what's the easiest way to fish it out of the gear box? or should I remove the tailshaft?

I looked down and cannot see it anywhere, even after draining the fluid. how do I get it out of there without dropping the transmission for a dis-assemble? (if there is no way, then I'll drop the transmission for a disassemble and maybe a syncro upgrade at the same time.)

4502976-BrokeTKO.JPG (127 downloads)

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