Can I lower front end without messing up my alignment?
#734051
06/26/10 04:16 PM
06/26/10 04:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI
Gusteve
OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!
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OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
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Hey all,
I rebuilt the front and rear suspension on my 68 charger. I added shackles to the rear to give it a decent rake. When I took the car in for an alignment, they adjusted the front end height to match the rear. I suppose they did this to get the best alignment. After a few months, I don't think I like the look, and want to lower the front end at least an inch, maybe two.
Is any adjustment at all going to screw up my alignment? Or how far can I go? I've hardly been able to drive the car at all since I bought it, and if I'm lucky this year, I'll put maybe 100 miles on it, if I can get it drivable enough. So its not like I'm going to toast the front tires in that amount of time if the alignment is off.
Will it handle funky if I lower it? Or should I just drop it down and not worry about it?
Last question - will it be easier to adjust it if if I jack the car up? Or will that not really matter since I'm lowering it, not raising it?
Thanks!
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignment?
[Re: Gusteve]
#734052
06/26/10 04:42 PM
06/26/10 04:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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Changing the ride height will have an impact on the alignment angles. How much is hard to say.
Will it hurt your tires till you get it back on the rack? Again hard to say but probably minimal if any in only 100 miles.
My suggestion would be get it back on the alignment rack and have them set it where you want it and align from there.
I do it for my customers all the time.
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignme
[Re: Wedgeman]
#734058
06/26/10 11:35 PM
06/26/10 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 893 Tustin, CA
pishta
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 893
Tustin, CA
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Yeah, even the slightest rear raising or front lowering will alter caster, taking out a little. When you do this, you can correcdt it a little by buying offset bushings for the upper A arms. By making the rear bushing offest toward the frame and the front bushing offset toward the tire, you effectively move the upper ball joint toward the rear, regaining lost caster. This helps the wheels return to straight after a turn and have higher speed stability. Camber is the tilting of the wheel inward or outward from the cars centerline. Lowered VW's have ridiculous negative camber on the rear IRS suspensions, looking like the tires centerline would intersect about 10 feet above the car. Generally, when you cranks the torsion bars down to lower the front, you dont alter the caster too much, if at all making them a little more negative. This will actually help steering but will wear out tires faster.
12 Grand Caravan 06 T&C 02 T&C 96 Breeze 65 Barracuda "S"
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignme
[Re: Kern Dog]
#734061
06/28/10 08:03 AM
06/28/10 08:03 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,918 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,918
new berlin wisconsin
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lowering the car should not change the toe as posted before. it will increase the neg CAMBER, tilt of the tire. to much will wear the inside edge of your tire. it will remove positive CASTER and add neg, angle of the upper ball joint to lower ball joint. positive caster aids in high speed stability. neg caster will make your steering wheel feel weird and the car will wander in the lane by it's self. think of a wheel on a shopping cart, this is a example of neg caster. this shouldn't add to tire wear much.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignme
[Re: Mr T2U]
#734062
06/28/10 10:01 AM
06/28/10 10:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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Please do yourself a favor and get it realigned. Changing the height changes almost everthing. Including toe. Hense bump steer. The up and down motion has a big efect on toe. That is why it takes some heating and bending to get rid of toe change when we do race car front ends.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignme
[Re: Mr T2U]
#734063
06/28/10 12:24 PM
06/28/10 12:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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boy, I think some of us should not talk about things when we are not sure if we have the correct answer. Please at the very least check and adjust toe. It is the most tire wearing adjustment if off. You are basically scrubbing the tires when you have the toe off. For those who think change in ride height does not change toe, according to test done by Hotchkis toe can change as much as 1 inch during the up and down travel of the suspension! Although this video is about bump steer it basically tells you the toe is in a different spot depending on where the suspension (ride height) is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzxPWrdPlt0
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignme
[Re: Kern Dog]
#734067
06/28/10 11:06 PM
06/28/10 11:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 587 minot north dakota
ledft79
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 587
minot north dakota
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I do about 1,000 alignments a year, and been doing them many years. If you drop the front end, you WILL change camber, caster, and toe. The front end travel will change everything. If you just change the rear height, caster will change the most, but, you are still transfering weight to or from the front end, and that will change camber and toe some. If you raise or drop your front end half an inch without aligning it, I'll bet you don't get 10,000 miles out of your 50,000 mile tires. That's just my estimate, I've never put any mileage on one after altering the height.
DRIVE EM, DONT HIDE EM.
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignme
[Re: ledft79]
#734068
06/29/10 08:10 AM
06/29/10 08:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,918 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,918
new berlin wisconsin
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if you significantly drop the front end, over 1/2". you will drastically change the front end geometry. and you should have the front end re aligned. i dropped the front end on my 72 road runner 3/8" without really changing the toe, caster, or camber, out of specifications. if i remember correctly the camber is a little over 1/2* neg camber from almost 0*, 3* pos caster from 3 3/8 , and between 1/16" to 1/8" toe in from 1/16". i get more tire wear from excessive pos caster than from the toe. i dropped the suspension 1 1/2" - 2" from stock before i lowered it another 3/8". after i dropped the front end i checked the alignment and didn't change a thing. i have driven this car over 15K miles and the tires still look like new. the tires are pirelli p-zero 17". i have to check the exact size, metric equivalent of a G 70, but they were take off tires off a 07 mustang gt.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 06/29/10 08:21 AM.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Can I lower front end without messing up my alignme
[Re: Mr T2U]
#734069
06/29/10 08:19 AM
06/29/10 08:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,918 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,918
new berlin wisconsin
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yes it's low but i do have some ground clearance. those are 4" collectors and the rocker is about 4 1/2" off the ground. the header flange is about 1 1/2" off the ground. all of the dirt is from driving the car 400 miles to the show and not really washing it. i just gave it a quick wipe down from the body line up.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 06/29/10 08:26 AM.
perception is 90% of reality
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