Hello,

I was the person who sent the info to AndyF. The same person is also selling them on racing junk. Here is the link

http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1297/...COVER-NEW-.html

In this ad he has AndyF's picture. At first AndyF thought he had somehow got a few and was selling them on his own. It appears totally different now.

Hang'em high

Damon

Hello Sublimehemi,

I am doing fine. Thanks for asking. I did not wish for him to involve you. Sorry! Heck I did not know I was walking into a trap.

He sent me the sam message just a bit ago. Wanted me to post it too. Guy seems to be a real card.

I started a tread a few day ago about the best street/strip timing cover because I am in the market. I wanted AndyF's cover and have been conversing with my machinist. The cost is a concern for me. I was looking around trying to find something I also liked that was not stamped steel or made by Indy. Found his ad on Racing Junk. I asked him these questions
"Does this cover come with a end play checking plate like the current ones?
Can the seal be put in thru the front or is it like the stock cover and the seal go in from the motor side?"
He responded and did not know what I was talking about relative to the current ones. He also said that he has ads on ebay about the same cover. So I looked on ebay. Found what Dram posted. Looked like AndyF's cover. I figured if I could save a few dollars maybe it was worth looking into. So I PM Andy with the info I had and asked him if it was his cover. Andy apparently just looked at the Racing Junk ad and replied that he did not know the guy, but buy at your own risk. So what you have read in this thread has now come to light.

Guy admits to copying AndyF's product and trying to undercut him on pricing. He is playing it off as OK because he will not make any more in that "configuration". He obviously has eyes on this thread and has "more to say to you and ANDYF and the other members". Where the heck did his 2 am comment come from? Well Cleveland Speed & Machine if you stole my part and tried blatantly to jam it up my ass I would more than keyboard harass you. Sorry I twisted this up for you. NOT!

Damon

In this day and age, anyone with a good product that doesn't expect it to be copied is fooling themselves (or maybe the product just isn't as good as they think!). The only way to eliminate copies is to price the product as low as possible right off the bat. Clearly if this guy can copy Andy's cover and sell it for less, then Andy needs to look at reducing his costs or lowering his profit. Its as simple as that.

And while this topic is fresh, is Andy's the "original" billet cover or has he in fact "copied" someone else's but added a few refinements? (The FHO unit is VERY similar - or is that one of Andy's?)

Furthermore, how many of us have fabricated EXACT copies of products because we have the abilities to do it for less than the retail cost. What's the difference if its one for ourselves or a hundred to sell, a copy is a copy PERIOD.

You live in what is quite possibly the most capitalistic country on the planet guys ... get over it !

Many aftermarket parts are copied from other parts and then improved.

While I can stand to see products being directly copied, its life. There are very few products that aren't copied, with very slight differences.

That being said, How many ways can you make a timing cover?

Copying someone else's product is against the law. The pictures on my website have copyright protection and the distinctive design of my timing cover is also protected. If you decide to sell cola in bottle that has the same shape as a Coke bottle you'll get your butt sued off. Look at the pictures and you'll see that the guy copied my design without even bothering to make it different. Same exact center design with the dual o-rings, same curves at the bottom, same checking plate, etc. Just a simple rip-off job without any effort to change things.

I agree Andy. I guess I'm a little confused.

The RJ link and the Ebay link show 2 clearly different covers.

wow, a couple of the posts sure seem a bit over the top, especially with the name calling and bashing.
after looking at pictures of both covers it appaears to me that the only similarity is the center cover for the cam. the rest of the cover from Cleveland Speed looks to be much more refined with a better timing pointer setup and recessed mounting holes, not to mention the overall machined appearance with more material removed, especially near the bottom, creating a different symmetry, if you will.
i don't have a dog in this fight, but consider how many H beam connecting rods, rocker arms and shafts or cylinder heads (among other things) "appear" to be "copies", yet there doesn't appear to be the same type of outrage.
after all, don't we all want more options for parts when it comes to our Mopars? i know i do.

the guy obviously took andys design and made a few changes.... I bet the guy is chinese

Andy I assume you have a patient on your part... I
have 5 different patients on different automotive
parts BUT being that I was working for Chrysler they
have the rights UNLESS it is sold to another company
but the way they(and all the other companies)get around
this is to TRADE patients which no money is involved.
Even a small change in a part(has to be enough of a
change) to get around patient rights.... but I dont
like people just down right stealing idea's (look at
the Chinese)they dont even reverse engineer it, they
just down right copy it

First off - NO Sledgehammer, i am not Chinese.

I surely did not think this thread would turn into this type legal blaze about Patents and copyrights , bashing and name calling.

Damon - The way i interpreted your posts was that you were fueling the fire to ANDYF - like "look what this guy is doing", at the time i did not realize that you were actually looking into purchasing a cover. Did not mean to throw you under the bus , for that i apologize.

ANDYF - All i was / am trying to do is improve something which i purchased and was not satisfied with. I wont go into detail here about the similaritis of aftermarket Mopar Timing covers - that would take days to list all which are available and describe how they relate to a stock Mopar stamped cover , afterall they fit the same thing dont they? Dual o-rings on a access cover? Way old technology - this was being done on Cast covers back in the day.I will not make any more covers like i presently have listed on Ebay.

But, ANDYF i do not feel the things you wrote about me are justified , especially on a forum such as Moparts - These comments of yours are a little rough -

from ANDYF "Looks like the guy isn't smart enough to come up with his own design. Someone sent me a link to the guys ebay ad and the guy is such a low life that he actually used a picture from my website to sell the parts that he copied from me. Nothing more than a scum sucking thief"

OR

"Many aftermarket parts are copied from other parts and then improved. But this low life copied my part, made the design worse in the process and then used pictures from my website to advertise. He evidently is too stupid to come up with his own design and is too lazy to take his own pictures.

The guy is basically a crook. Provide him with your credit card info at your own risk. If he is willing to steal stuff from me who says he won't steal stuff from you too? "....Did i deserve this? You dont even know me or have your facts straight.

Now the part about me using your pictures to sell MY cover - this is simply not true. If you go to Racingjunk and look at my ad , i am actually selling the cover i bought from you! - It has a picture of YOUR cover and it states in the ad that the cover is from AR Engineering. I did not know this was wrong.

The covers which are for sale on Ebay are the the ones i made and use pictures i took and descriptions i wrote. I did not know any other way to sell them.

I have just joined Moparts.com and this is my first post , it is not the type of post i envisioned - but here i am.Hopefully me next posts will not of this nature.

Paul

Stop making and selling copies of my cover and using my copyrighted material and I'm fine.

I'm sorry but this is now ridiculous.

5 bolts vs 6 bolts, does not equal same pattern.
Different timing pointer all together.


This does not equal same cover.




However, I have no dog in this fight. Have at it.

Enough already....stop the insults.

hey just got my cover after reading thru all the drama...I have to say its far from a chinese piece fit is perfect and its a pretty beefy work of art cam changes will be easy I got the black anodized one looks like the one the pros use just need to make the rest of my stuff look good...Emailed him and it sounds like he has alot more stuff on the table for big block mopars.