Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: pleasantk]
#726087
06/17/10 12:36 AM
06/17/10 12:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,215 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,215
Bend,OR USA
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I have several pump gas street stroker motors, one is a 518 low deck with 10.29 to 1 compression and the other one is a 464 C.I. 440 motor(3.9 stroke with 4.50 bore) Both motors have Eddy RPM heads. The big motor has a set of the CNC ported Eddy RPM by MCH and the little motor has a stock set of Eddy RPM, the big motor has a Comp Cams solid roller that is 260@ .050 intake and 266 @ .050 exhaust, both have over .700 net lift at the retainers. The little motor has a Comp Cams XE295HL cam and lifters, that motor has 10.46 to 1 comp, ratio. Both motors run well on the local pump swill with the total timing set at 34 to 37 degrees, depending on the track altitude and weather Don't forget that big C.I. motors eat big duration cams and need big air into and out of them
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/17/10 12:45 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: pleasantk]
#726088
06/17/10 07:12 AM
06/17/10 07:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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A set of higher ratio rockers will work well here. The .557 is .631 with a 1.7 rocker if you can find them. Almost roller performance with a flat tappet cam. Sig Erson made a high ratio cast steel rocker years ago in 1.75 advertised. I used it with a .590 cam and L88 chev valve springs. I was shifting below 6000 rpm. Worked great!
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#726093
06/17/10 10:09 AM
06/17/10 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928 NC
440Jim
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Don't forget that big C.I. motors eat big duration cams and need big air into and out of them
Something around 265-270 at 0.050" cam and 0.600" lift would be streetable at 512 CID. CR depends, but 11.0 should be safe with aluminum heads, and the right setup (quench, duration, ignition curve, etc) could push 12.0 CR; but that can get touchy.
Check on that 4200 converter. If that was the stall with 440 CID, it will stall higher at 512.
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: Thumperdart]
#726095
06/17/10 10:58 AM
06/17/10 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: Thumperdart]
#726101
06/17/10 02:45 PM
06/17/10 02:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,437 Dandridge TN
Dabee
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Dandridge TN
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Quote:
I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.
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Again, no dissrespect but 11`s w/ a big 512 doesn`t cut it.....my daily driven stock stroke iron headed solid cammed 360 went 11.80`s-12.0`s at l.a.c.r. I expect MUCH more out of the strokers but, if you`re happy that`s all that really matters.
My 69 Bee is primarily a street car. That’s why I put the Gear Venders in it and kept the AC and all the power stuff. I’m happy with it running 11’s on the occasional trip to the track. If I want to go faster I take my RED to the strip and run 8.0’s all day.
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: pleasantk]
#726102
06/17/10 02:46 PM
06/17/10 02:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,215 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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I am contenplating switching heads on my 518 from a set of CNC ported Eddy with 84.0CC to a set of Indy 44-1 with 75.0 cc, that change will make my compression ratio go from 10.29 to 1 to 10.84 to 1. I'm thinking that will still be pump gas freindly with my camshaft, the bigger the cam duration at .050 the less the dynamic compression ratio ends up being. my new dynamic comp. ratio will be 7.862 according to the on line calculator on KB web site, United engine and machine. My message is build your motor with flattop pistons with valve reliefs and shoot for at least 10.5 to 1 compression Look at using a bigger, and better designed, cam than the Mopar "557" or "590" also
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: Thumperdart]
#726103
06/17/10 04:36 PM
06/17/10 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Quote:
I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.
Again, no dissrespect but 11`s w/ a big 512 doesn`t cut it.....my daily driven stock stroke iron headed solid cammed 360 went 11.80`s-12.0`s at l.a.c.r. I expect MUCH more out of the strokers but, if you`re happy that`s all that really matters.
No disrepect taken, I was happy with the results. The car ran mid 11's on pump gas through exhaust manifolds, and idled like a a stock 383. Never had the car on a trailer and drove it many miles with child seats to boot. I could have added headers and hotter cam and easily run in the 10's...
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: pleasantk]
#726105
06/18/10 01:32 AM
06/18/10 01:32 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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Compression ratio really depends on the entire combination. My old 451 ran on pump gas at 11:1 compression, with a mild 251/251 duration roller cam and Brodix B1 B/S heads, 3500 stall converter and 3.91:1 gears. The new 500 stroker is 12.4:1 compression, and I have been running it on 100 octane pump unleaded. I have not tried it on lower octane. I really built this engine with the intent to run E-85, but I need to update my fuel system for the E-85. I also, have a 440 source 512 kit that I plan to put into my convertible. I want this to be a pump gas engine that is easy on parts, idles like stock, and good power up to 5,500 - 6,000 max. I am using the 440 source 17cc dished pistons #5070, and with the Stealth heads 80-84 cc? the compression ratio will be about 10.0-10.25:1 depending on the actual chamber volume.
With 512cid the Stealth and RPM heads are actually on the small side and could use some porting, but should work fine on a street car.
The big engine will really want a good sized cam. I think about the smallest cam I would use would be 230 duration @ 0.050".
I have not decided on a cam for my engine yet, but I have the old 251@ 0.050" roller cam from the 451 I was thinking of using as a baseline, but I really would rather have a milider hydraulic roller than the solid roller to reduce valve train noise. Because i don't plan to race the car, I am leaning towards a smaller cam, and looking at something like the Comp #3122 hydraaulic roller cam lobe profile with only 236 @ 0.050" duration, 0.608" lift with 1.6:1 rocker arms, but the ramps must be pretty fast because the 0.200" duration is 160 degrees which is about the same as some of the larger 244(158&161) and 248(161) @ 0.050" cams?
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: 451Mopar]
#726106
06/18/10 08:33 AM
06/18/10 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928 NC
440Jim
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Quote:
Compression ratio really depends on the entire combination.
Quote:
The new 500 stroker is 12.4:1 compression, and I have been running it on 100 octane pump unleaded. I have not tried it on lower octane.
What gas station carries "pump" 100 octane gasoline? That sounds like a Sunoco race fuel, unleaded so it is street legal. But I have often seen that more expensive than 110 leaded race gas. Is this engine with the same Brodix B1 B/S aluminum heads?
My street 440 with iron heads is 10.7 CR and runs on pump 93 octane with the MP 0.557" cam. So aluminum heads might allow up to 1.0 CR higher.
With aluminum heads and 500+ CID, I wouldn't put less than 260 degrees at 0.050" and 11.0 CR. But that is just me.
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: Bubba]
#726108
06/18/10 09:46 AM
06/18/10 09:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Weddington, N.C.
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11:1 will work well with the 557 and it will make great power even with mildly ported E-heads. Think about a 2.19 intake valve and concentrate primarily on getting the mid lift numbers up, don't worry so much about the peak numbers.
I like the Indy dual plane (I run a ported Max wedge version on my 4.30 stoke 12:1 517 B) or the street dominator, the performer RPM is also a great intake but it is tall and limits your hood clearance and doesn't flow as well as the Indy 2D on a big inch motor.
Your short block makes the torque, the cam tunes the curve and the HP potential is the heads....get the powerband where you want it and if you want more HP upgrade later to some 360+ cfm MW ports and you'll make more big end and not lose any torque, only gains.
557 is a great cam, it will be very mild in a 511, at least the way I build them. 590 would work even better with no real downside on the street.
For street strokers I like a tighter (3500-ish) FB stall with a ~4400 flash...but your in a "race only" forum so the opinions are going to skew to the high side. The tight FB allows you to get more use out of the great torque but the flash puts you right into early side of the flat Torque Peak so even from gradual part throttle 'roll-on' the power comes on fast with great tractibility on street tires....plus it's more predicable and easier to modulate in all weather conditions.
PM me if I can help with any 'real street' combo type questions.
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Re: 512 build suggestions
[Re: 440Jim]
#726109
06/18/10 11:01 AM
06/18/10 11:01 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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master
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Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
Quote:
The new 500 stroker is 12.4:1 compression, and I have been running it on 100 octane pump unleaded. I have not tried it on lower octane.
What gas station carries "pump" 100 octane gasoline? That sounds like a Sunoco race fuel, unleaded so it is street legal. But I have often seen that more expensive than 110 leaded race gas. Is this engine with the same Brodix B1 B/S aluminum heads?
There are a few gas stations that sell the 100 octane at the pump, It is Sonoco fuel, and the station is Hill Petroleum. I think it is about $6.00/gallon? The station I got the 100 octane from also sells E-85 and Bio-Diesel. Intresting that they don't sell premium (92-93 octane) unleaded?
The new 500 engine has the max wedge Edelbrock victors with some mild porting. These are the heads that I broke the rocker shaft stand on, so I am currently having the stands milled off and using the billit stands. The cam in this is just a mild 264/264 @ 0.050 (comp HXL lobes), 0.714" roller with 112 LSA. It idles so you know it is there at 1,000 rpm, but has alot of torque. On the otherhand the new 9" converter keeps me from putting much load on the engine at low RPM?
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