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512 build suggestions #726084
06/16/10 07:31 PM
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Saint Charles, MO
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pleasantk Offline OP
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Looking to build my first stroker motor for the GTX and looking for some suggestions on a few items. This is a street/strip car. I will be adding a set of Edelbrock heads. I have a 727 with full manual reverse pattern and a 4200 stall PTC converter. My question is how much compression can it take and still run on pump gas? Also I have a MP .557 cam laying around,could I get away with this cam or do I need to look for something bigger? Not looking for the fastest stroker around, just want something that can hold it's own at the track and still be able to cruise up to the local car show. Thanks in advance!

Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: pleasantk] #726085
06/16/10 08:32 PM
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A few comments based on building a 496. The 512 will like to breath; any porting you can do on the heads to increase flow will really help. With a cam like the .557 I think you would be fine up to 10.4 - 10.5. Maybe a bit more but personally I'd build for 10.2-10.3 to have a little margin.

On the cam, it depends on what you want and like. The .557 would work great on a street strip car. It would be fun to drive with lots of torque. You would give up some on the top end vs a more radical cam... but the more radical cam may reduce the fun of driving it. The 557 should work fine with standard Ed springs.

With the 557, torque should start building pretty fast starting below 2500 RPM. 4200 stall may be a bit much. I'm not an auto guy but would guess 3500-3800 would be more than enough.

383man [Re: ahy] #726086
06/17/10 12:23 AM
06/17/10 12:23 AM
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I have a .030 over 440 in my 63 right now with the MP .557 cam and I really like that cam in my street/strip 440. I am only using 906 heads I did some porting on. My self with a 512 I would look to use more cam then the .557 as it will handle a larger cam with ease. You can still have a nice driver and as was said I would have the Eddy heads ported. With the right cam and quench you could run up to 11.0 comp on pump gas. I would also use a zero deck flattop piston. That way with a closed chamber head you can use a .039 head gasket and have nice quench. I have 10.0 comp in my 440 now which is iron heads and the aluminum heads can handle about 1 point more comp. Good luck , Ron

Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: pleasantk] #726087
06/17/10 12:36 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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I have several pump gas street stroker motors, one is a 518 low deck with 10.29 to 1 compression and the other one is a 464 C.I. 440 motor(3.9 stroke with 4.50 bore) Both motors have Eddy RPM heads. The big motor has a set of the CNC ported Eddy RPM by MCH and the little motor has a stock set of Eddy RPM, the big motor has a Comp Cams solid roller that is 260@ .050 intake and 266 @ .050 exhaust, both have over .700 net lift at the retainers. The little motor has a Comp Cams XE295HL cam and lifters, that motor has 10.46 to 1 comp, ratio. Both motors run well on the local pump swill with the total timing set at 34 to 37 degrees, depending on the track altitude and weather Don't forget that big C.I. motors eat big duration cams and need big air into and out of them

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/17/10 12:45 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: pleasantk] #726088
06/17/10 07:12 AM
06/17/10 07:12 AM
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A set of higher ratio rockers will work well here. The .557 is .631 with a 1.7 rocker if you can find them. Almost roller performance with a flat tappet cam. Sig Erson made a high ratio cast steel rocker years ago in 1.75 advertised. I used it with a .590 cam and L88 chev valve springs. I was shifting below 6000 rpm. Worked great!


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: gregsdart] #726089
06/17/10 07:24 AM
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Found a part number, but no longer in the catolog.
Erson rockers, 1.75 bb, e918010


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: gregsdart] #726090
06/17/10 08:07 AM
06/17/10 08:07 AM
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My 9:1 493 made 600 ft/lbs at 4000 with a .509 and 1.7 rockers so your converter should be pretty close. On the dyno mine started swinging the needle at 1500 and by 2000 it was doing 500 ft/lbs. Does it on 87 regular. Just the ticket for my New Yorker.

Kevin

Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: pleasantk] #726091
06/17/10 08:46 AM
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For a street/strip engine you don’t need a lot of lift. I have the below cam in my 511 wedge and it is a hand full on the street. Compression is 10.5, with out of the box Indy EZ heads. Tons of low end torque. I would think your .557 would work in a 512. My 511 runs 11.74 in the ¼ mile in a 69 Super Bee and that’s with P/S, P/B, A/C and full interior.

Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: Dabee] #726092
06/17/10 08:54 AM
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A couple things I forgot to mention. I’m using a 2400 stall PTC converter, 727 trans with a reveres manual VB and Gear Venders OD.

Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: Cab_Burge] #726093
06/17/10 10:09 AM
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Quote:

Don't forget that big C.I. motors eat big duration cams and need big air into and out of them



Something around 265-270 at 0.050" cam and 0.600" lift would be streetable at 512 CID. CR depends, but 11.0 should be safe with aluminum heads, and the right setup (quench, duration, ignition curve, etc) could push 12.0 CR; but that can get touchy.

Check on that 4200 converter. If that was the stall with 440 CID, it will stall higher at 512.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: 440Jim] #726094
06/17/10 10:42 AM
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Now we`re talkin................You say you want a respectable street/strip car? That has different meanings to different people and no dissrespect but a 512 running 11`s doesn`t cut it in my book(havn`t written it yet)and I only have 470 cubes and 12.11 comp but my car purrs like a kitten w/275-280 degs of dur @ .050. Not saying you need THAT much but as Jim stated you need way more than those baby cams and STREETABLE well, that too is a matter of opinion..........go big!


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: Thumperdart] #726095
06/17/10 10:58 AM
06/17/10 10:58 AM
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I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.


2 kids and a dog
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: TonyS451] #726096
06/17/10 11:24 AM
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Quote:

I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.


Again, no dissrespect but 11`s w/ a big 512 doesn`t cut it.....my daily driven stock stroke iron headed solid cammed 360 went 11.80`s-12.0`s at l.a.c.r. I expect MUCH more out of the strokers but, if you`re happy that`s all that really matters.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: Dabee] #726097
06/17/10 11:34 AM
06/17/10 11:34 AM
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Quote:

For a street/strip engine you don’t need a lot of lift. I have the below cam in my 511 wedge and it is a hand full on the street. Compression is 10.5, with out of the box Indy EZ heads. Tons of low end torque. I would think your .557 would work in a 512. My 511 runs 11.74 in the ¼ mile in a 69 Super Bee and that’s with P/S, P/B, A/C and full interior.


I like it! Car probably looks like a lightly modified original car and has mild manners, AC and does not need constant wrenching and runs 11s to boot? Count me in.


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: Thumperdart] #726098
06/17/10 01:20 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.


Again, no dissrespect but 11`s w/ a big 512 doesn`t cut it.....my daily driven stock stroke iron headed solid cammed 360 went 11.80`s-12.0`s at l.a.c.r. I expect MUCH more out of the strokers but, if you`re happy that`s all that really matters.




You have to look at MUCH MORE than the timeslip. Usage and options on the car will drastically change how it will ET. You stripped down racer with a 512 might do 9s, while my street car with a 512 will do 11s but be much more liveable. Or you name a comparison...

Apples to oranges.


I want my fair share
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: SomeCarGuy] #726099
06/17/10 01:46 PM
06/17/10 01:46 PM
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Saint Charles, MO
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pleasantk Offline OP
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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. It has definitely given me some more to think about!

Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: pleasantk] #726100
06/17/10 01:50 PM
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If you haven't bought a kit yet...Try Muscle Motors....Mike and Eric were great to deal with and answered all of my questions!!


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: Thumperdart] #726101
06/17/10 02:45 PM
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Quote:

I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, no dissrespect but 11`s w/ a big 512 doesn`t cut it.....my daily driven stock stroke iron headed solid cammed 360 went 11.80`s-12.0`s at l.a.c.r. I expect MUCH more out of the strokers but, if you`re happy that`s all that really matters.




My 69 Bee is primarily a street car. That’s why I put the Gear Venders in it and kept the AC and all the power stuff. I’m happy with it running 11’s on the occasional trip to the track. If I want to go faster I take my RED to the strip and run 8.0’s all day.

Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: pleasantk] #726102
06/17/10 02:46 PM
06/17/10 02:46 PM
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I am contenplating switching heads on my 518 from a set of CNC ported Eddy with 84.0CC to a set of Indy 44-1 with 75.0 cc, that change will make my compression ratio go from 10.29 to 1 to 10.84 to 1. I'm thinking that will still be pump gas freindly with my camshaft, the bigger the cam duration at .050 the less the dynamic compression ratio ends up being. my new dynamic comp. ratio will be 7.862 according to the on line calculator
on KB web site, United engine and machine. My message is build your motor with flattop pistons with valve reliefs and shoot for at least 10.5 to 1 compression Look at using a bigger, and better designed, cam than the Mopar "557" or "590" also


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 512 build suggestions [Re: Thumperdart] #726103
06/17/10 04:36 PM
06/17/10 04:36 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I ran a 10.5-1 512 with Stage 6 heads, indy dual plane, 950 carb and a 238 @.050/.540 Solid flat tappet through exhaust manifolds and it went 11.55 at 117 at 3800lbs. Although your engine might like more cam, I think the .557 would work fine and should be extremely nice on the street.


Again, no dissrespect but 11`s w/ a big 512 doesn`t cut it.....my daily driven stock stroke iron headed solid cammed 360 went 11.80`s-12.0`s at l.a.c.r. I expect MUCH more out of the strokers but, if you`re happy that`s all that really matters.




No disrepect taken, I was happy with the results. The car ran mid 11's on pump gas through exhaust manifolds, and idled like a a stock 383. Never had the car on a trailer and drove it many miles with child seats to boot. I could have added headers and hotter cam and easily run in the 10's...


2 kids and a dog
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