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New engine smoking #711389
05/30/10 11:58 AM
05/30/10 11:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
4
469runner Offline OP
pro stock
469runner  Offline OP
pro stock
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
408 small block. A mild build, roller cam, EQ magnum heads, Mopar M-1 intake. Made 420 HP, 450 lb/ft on dyno. Blows blue smoke, lots of it. Inside of tail pipes are oily. Plugs don't look too bad, and engine runs well. I pulled intake and checked alignment, all was well. Intake ports were clean. Heads are brand new as are valves etc.. I'm at my wits end with this thing. It smokes at idle and upon deceleration from a higher speed, then on to gas gives a big puff of BLUE smoke. So its definetly burning oil.
I'm going to try changing valve seals. Opinions? Any chance rings are not seated, even though makes good power? Thanks!

Re: New engine smoking [Re: 469runner] #711390
05/30/10 12:07 PM
05/30/10 12:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,107
Spring Valley ,Ca.
moparsquid Offline
super stock
moparsquid  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,107
Spring Valley ,Ca.
try doing a leak down test it sounds like the rings didnt seal or it could be seals ,were they replaced upon rebuild.?

Re: New engine smoking [Re: 469runner] #711391
05/30/10 12:10 PM
05/30/10 12:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,831
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Online boogie
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Online Boogie
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,831
Kirkland, Washington
The fact that you mention deceleration and then smoke when you hit the gas makes me suspect the valve seals. Did you use umbrella seals or viton?

Re: New engine smoking [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #711392
05/30/10 01:29 PM
05/30/10 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
4
469runner Offline OP
pro stock
469runner  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
Builder used new viton valve seals.

Re: New engine smoking [Re: 469runner] #711393
05/30/10 01:38 PM
05/30/10 01:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

Opinions? Any chance rings are not seated, even though makes good power? Thanks!


Read "breakin secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com. 5 minute read


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: New engine smoking [Re: 469runner] #711394
05/30/10 01:40 PM
05/30/10 01:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 708
Mechanic Falls, Maine
4
4BBodies Offline
mopar addict
4BBodies  Offline
mopar addict
4

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 708
Mechanic Falls, Maine
Sorry this happened to you, I just fired a fresh engine, and you always worry about crap like this happening. Luckily mine is fine. I'm not calling your builder a liar, but I would pull a valve cover and check to make sure those new viton seals are actually there. Maybe whoever assembled them forgot? Good luck to you, I hope it is just the valve seals, as you can do those with the engine assembled.

Re: New engine smoking [Re: RapidRobert] #711395
05/30/10 02:01 PM
05/30/10 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
4
469runner Offline OP
pro stock
469runner  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
Interesting read Robert, thanks for the link. As engine was run on builders dyno I suspect he ran it pretty hard, but I wasn't present. The printout he gave me showed he ran the engine to 5900 rpm's The power peaked at 4900 rpm's.

Re: New engine smoking [Re: 469runner] #711396
05/31/10 09:08 AM
05/31/10 09:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 35
Texas
7
73Rallye Offline
member
73Rallye  Offline
member
7

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 35
Texas
I went through the same thing with my s/block pumping oil out of the exhaust, did a compression and leak down test- OK, suspected unseated rings and faulty intake gasket sealing, finally change the valve stem seals and smoking problem was corrected. Good luck

Re: New engine smoking [Re: 73Rallye] #711397
05/31/10 10:44 AM
05/31/10 10:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 420
Central Ohio
L
Ledman_70 Offline
mopar
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 420
Central Ohio
I read the break-in article, but if applied to our motors, it doesn't take one thing into consideration....the cam break-in. I've always read you should break in your new engine at 20-30 minutes at 2000 rpm to keep from wiping the cam. Hard acceleration/decceleration is not possible using this technoque. What do you guys think?


Jeff Adams 64 426 Polara
Re: New engine smoking [Re: Ledman_70] #711398
05/31/10 01:29 PM
05/31/10 01:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 660
F
fury4speed Offline
mopar
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mopar
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 660
It could also be a bad Intake Gasket , the Oil is getting sucked through the port , if the Heads have been Surfaced and the Block was Decked sometimes the Intake will not seal properly , check the Intake Gasket when you / if you pull it off. But the Leakdown Test that was Mentioned is a good way to tell what is going on.

Re: New engine smoking [Re: fury4speed] #711399
05/31/10 02:10 PM
05/31/10 02:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
You said the intake ports were clean. How did the backs of the valves look. If they were coated with black tarry looking stuff, it's bad valve stem seals. If they were as clean as the runners, you have a ring problem. Leak down test will tell you for sure. Even a new motor with rings yet to seat should not be smoking like a chimney.


Fastest 300
Re: New engine smoking [Re: Ledman_70] #711400
05/31/10 03:03 PM
05/31/10 03:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

the cam break-in. I've always read you should break in your new engine at 20-30 minutes at 2000 rpm to keep from wiping the cam. Hard acceleration/decceleration is not possible using this technoque. What do you guys think?


I fire it up @~2500 then accell to ~5K or so then let it go back to ~2500 & repeat multiple times. This also helps the lifters to spin.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: New engine smoking [Re: Crizila] #711401
05/31/10 07:22 PM
05/31/10 07:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Leakdown test might now show it if his oil control rings are not properly installed or broken in, the compression rings may be good and hide it.

Re: New engine smoking [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #711402
05/31/10 09:30 PM
05/31/10 09:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,089
st.cloud fl
D
d-150 Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
d-150  Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,089
st.cloud fl
what about the fuel?i have a 440 rebuilt thought there was major problems. white smoke sometimes blue smoke sometimes. turned out bad fuel drained tank,cleaned fuel system now not a puff. i think the ethanol in old gas really turns bad fast.

Re: New engine smoking [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #711403
05/31/10 11:23 PM
05/31/10 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Quote:

Leakdown test might now <--- " punction and grammer checker"?? show it if his oil control rings are not properly installed or broken in, the compression rings may be good and hide it.


No break-in to oil rings. I suppose the builder could have overlapped the ends on the waffle spacer, but most of the new spacers have plastic ends to prevent that - not to mention if they are installed wrong, it's almost impossible to compress them when installing the pistons.


Fastest 300
Re: New engine smoking [Re: 469runner] #711404
06/01/10 11:15 AM
06/01/10 11:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
Boise Idaho
B
Boise Chall Offline
mopar
Boise Chall  Offline
mopar
B

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
Boise Idaho
Years ago I had a fresh small block chevy that would run strong and hard on acceleration with no smoke but when I let off the throttle it would let out a cloud of smoke. I did a compression test that came out good so I added the umbrella seals and still had the same problem. I took the heads off and had them gone over again put them back on still had the problem. unfortunately I never rolled the motor over with the heads off. Finally took the motor out tore it down and found the wrist pin in the #1 piston had worked itself out and dug a 3/4" wide trench in the wall the length of the stroke. My theory was that on decel the oil would slosh to the front of the pan and fill the trench making the smoke. Why didn't it show up on a compression test???? hmmm Why was the #1 piston covering the trench when the heads were off????? maybe that's Why I'm on a MOPAR forum now

Re: New engine smoking [Re: Boise Chall] #711405
06/01/10 12:41 PM
06/01/10 12:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
M
moper Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
Do you have a picture of the cylinder walls before the ehads went on? If not, can you find out what the honing stone combination used on your engine by the shop was? Smoking is usually one of three things: Intake fitment and you'll see the marks and oil in the ports and it will smoke all the time, worse on deceleration. Intake valve guide/seal issues and as said you'll see it on the backside of the intake valve and the piston top and again, worse on cold starts and deceleration. Last is ring seal... You can tell by looking at the hone finish if it's too rough for modern rings. Top rig seals compression and should seat during cam break in. Second ring is the main oil scraper and should seat shortly after cam break in. Oil rings remove the major oil off the walls and they may take a few miles to seat. If the rings are bad, you'll see it in the leakdown. Symptoms are smoking all the time, excessive blowby showing out the breather/pcv grommets when running (oil in breather or wet oil in PCV) and PCV disconnected from carb (plug vacuum nipple on baseplate) and oil on the piston tops.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: New engine smoking [Re: moper] #711406
06/09/10 08:18 PM
06/09/10 08:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
4
469runner Offline OP
pro stock
469runner  Offline OP
pro stock
4

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
OK, thought I would update so maybe others can learn from this. I replaced all the valve seals with Viton seals, it had those white teflon seals on it. No more smoke, and it runs great. Don't know what the problem was with those others being a new engine and all. Thanks everyone with the input. This forum is such a valuable resource for all involved.







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