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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: HealthServices]
#708924
05/28/10 11:06 AM
05/28/10 11:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Hello again everyone. Sorry some of this runs together, I'm trying to type as fast as my brain is coming up with ideas....ain't workin'! Anyway, Yes, Allen, if I unplug the key in relay, the car shuts off normal. With this plugged in, I have power at the resistor, coil, etc....where it's not supposed to be. With the relay un-plugged, power is normal at coil, resistor etc..I think somehow the key is causing the "ground". If I pull the key out of the column as I'm turning the car off, it will shut off normally. When I bought the harness from Y1, it came with instructions that stated "this harness uses different relay than a 1970, it is included" Superwrench, the red wire at the relay has power when the key is in, no power with the key pulled out..With the relay unhooked, the oil gauge still works tho. I just don't have VOLT or GAS gauge working. Again, Thank you all for helping me!! Jeff
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: 1969RR]
#708925
05/28/10 11:41 AM
05/28/10 11:41 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
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Just a question...might sound silly...BUT....did you happen to get a '71 harness and are using it in a '70 car? My digging here shows some differences in circuits. Just trying to isolate the gremlin. 
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: 1969RR]
#708927
05/28/10 01:34 PM
05/28/10 01:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Quote:
Hello again everyone. Sorry some of this runs together, I'm trying to type as fast as my brain is coming up with ideas....ain't workin'! Anyway, Yes, Allen, if I unplug the key in relay, the car shuts off normal. With this plugged in, I have power at the resistor, coil, etc....where it's not supposed to be. With the relay un-plugged, power is normal at coil, resistor etc..I think somehow the key is causing the "ground". If I pull the key out of the column as I'm turning the car off, it will shut off normally. When I bought the harness from Y1, it came with instructions that stated "this harness uses different relay than a 1970, it is included" Superwrench, the red wire at the relay has power when the key is in, no power with the key pulled out..With the relay unhooked, the oil gauge still works tho. I just don't have VOLT or GAS gauge working. Again, Thank you all for helping me!! Jeff
Sounds like the power is some how back feeding thru the key buzzer. Wonder if it has anything to do with the diode here
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: 1969RR]
#708928
05/28/10 02:44 PM
05/28/10 02:44 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
master
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master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
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Quote:
if I unplug the key in relay, the car shuts off normal. With this plugged in, I have power at the resistor, coil, etc....where it's not supposed to be. With the relay un-plugged, power is normal at coil, resistor etc..I think somehow the key is causing the "ground". If I pull the key out of the column as I'm turning the car off, it will shut off normally.
You are picking up the relay coil with the key in, it woudl seem you have a wire landed on the wrong contact of the relay.
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: superwrench]
#708929
05/28/10 04:40 PM
05/28/10 04:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
if I unplug the key in relay, the car shuts off normal. With this plugged in, I have power at the resistor, coil, etc....where it's not supposed to be. With the relay un-plugged, power is normal at coil, resistor etc..I think somehow the key is causing the "ground". If I pull the key out of the column as I'm turning the car off, it will shut off normally.
You are picking up the relay coil with the key in, it woudl seem you have a wire landed on the wrong contact of the relay.
I wonder if it does it with the door open or closed?
From what I understand the way it is suppose to work is... If the key is in the ignition + the door is open. the buzzer is suppose to sound.
Apparently you are not getting the buzzer and the car continues to run. Maybe there is a short or there is a mis-wire at the buzzer causing the red wire there to go directly to the blue wire with the tracer.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: 1969RR]
#708931
05/29/10 06:55 PM
05/29/10 06:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Quote:
Hey guys, The only diffreence I can see from my old harness to the new Y1 harness, is at the door jamb switches, my old harness only had 1 plug in, the new harness has 2. I had to buy new jamb switches. As for the door question.....if doors are shut, car turns off normally....if open, will not shut off and have power at coil, resistor etc...I cannot hear a "key buzzer" nor do I remember the diode in this harness. Still chasin'!! Take care!! Jeff
It is at this section where you are having the issue. remove and repair this buzzer or replace it. This will at least get the buzzer working. if not the ignition problem. If the ignition problem continues remove and replace the diode. If it is not in the buzzer this diode is wired into the harness it could be in backwards. If you are lucky it is 1/4 inch in size.
This is where your problem is! With the key in the red wire is hot to the buzzer. the relay is suppose to ground the buzzer side of the buzzer, but is instead back feeding the power to the Dark Blue wire with the tracer (ignition wire)
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: 1969RR]
#708934
05/30/10 10:36 PM
05/30/10 10:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I'm just going by the wiring diagram. I only had the buzzer out one time many moons ago. If no one chimes in, I would look at the buzzer itself for the diode first. If not there it should be within 2 inches of where the buzzer plugs in.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: HealthServices]
#708936
05/30/10 10:50 PM
05/30/10 10:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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And this is just my thinking but if you already swapped the relay out with a known good one, I think the diode may be on backwards or in your case not on there at all.
Most diodes I've seen though are on the unit they are trying not to have back feeding thru.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: 1969RR]
#708939
11/02/11 03:53 PM
11/02/11 03:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
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Quote:
Hello! As I'm reading this, I'm thinking...man, this sounds like the problem I was having...wait, I am the OP! Odd problem. Took a phone call to tech line to figure out. I just un-hooked the door relay and it works fine. The relay is over next to, hooked to the glove box liner. As long as it's un-hooked, works fine. Jeff
Jeff,
What was the cause of your gauges not working? The fuel and oil pressure gauges do not work on this car.
I did remove the relay and like you said it works fine. I just wasn't sure if there would be any unwanted side effects to doing that.
I am glad that you were reading this.....again!
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#708940
11/02/11 03:56 PM
11/02/11 03:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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As mention it is either missing the diode or the diode is on backwards on the relay
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: HealthServices]
#708941
11/02/11 04:00 PM
11/02/11 04:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
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Quote:
As mention it is either missing the diode or the diode is on backwards on the relay
Well there is no diode on the relay and I have not yet seen the buzzer to see if it is there. Would it possibly be mounted to the buzzer?
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#708942
11/02/11 04:01 PM
11/02/11 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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or inside the buzzer maybe?
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 1970 Challenger electrical gremlins
[Re: HealthServices]
#708943
11/02/11 04:05 PM
11/02/11 04:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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or... a diode was not installed on the reproduction harness causing it to back feed power! 
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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