Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: Moparnut426]
#689613
05/05/10 04:36 PM
05/05/10 04:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060
Western New York
sixpackbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060
Western New York
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You DA it or hand sand it a bit to get the sand out of the metal that embeds itself there. After that a good cleaning with DA330 other type of wipe solvent then you are good to go.
1959 Bugeye Sprite
1967 Charger Black L code
1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner
1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM
1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96
1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car
1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85
1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96
1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13
1971 MG Midget
1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57
1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: Moparnut426]
#689616
05/05/10 08:55 PM
05/05/10 08:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Is it ok to use the acid etching primer on blasted bare metal? I have never heard this, and dont understand the difference in blasted metal, or ground on metal?
Just asking to clear up my head.
Kasey
wow, Yes it's ok to use etch primer first on bare metal, it's recomended.
First off I don't see any difference between blasted and sanded ground metal. it get's treated the same imo.
I have done lots of sand/media blasting and paint work over the years(25).
As soon as I'm done blasting when I have bare white metal before I even touch it, I paint it. The first coat of paint is etching primer. 1 light coat, it's translucent and provides a chemical advantage for top coats. Then within 1 hour or so the second and third coats are epoxy primer. Then at that point within 24 hours if I can, I apply the top coat without any scuffing or sanding. Like say the bottem of your car or inside the car. Wet on wet is best for best results.
Some people will say epoxy directly on bare blasted metal but using etch primer first is better.
Once your metal is blasted bare, you want to coat it fast and definety don't touch it or pre treat with anything, as it as clean as can be after blasting.
I've done entire cars and trucks with the above procedure and still own some of the trucks that I painted 15 years ago. I know what holds up.
Got lot's of pictures of my work.
My 71 has etch primer all over it.
Last edited by Challenger 1; 05/05/10 09:05 PM.
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: Challenger 1]
#689617
05/05/10 09:21 PM
05/05/10 09:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
elitecustombody
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
Is it ok to use the acid etching primer on blasted bare metal? I have never heard this, and dont understand the difference in blasted metal, or ground on metal?
Just asking to clear up my head.
Kasey
wow, Yes it's ok to use etch primer first on bare metal, it's recomended.
First off I don't see any difference between blasted and sanded ground metal. it get's treated the same imo.
I have done lots of sand/media blasting and paint work over the years(25).
As soon as I'm done blasting when I have bare white metal before I even touch it, I paint it. The first coat of paint is etching primer. 1 light coat, it's translucent and provides a chemical advantage for top coats. Then within 1 hour or so the second and third coats are epoxy primer. Then at that point within 24 hours if I can, I apply the top coat without any scuffing or sanding. Like say the bottem of your car or inside the car. Wet on wet is best for best results.
Some people will say epoxy directly on bare blasted metal but using etch primer first is better.
Once your metal is blasted bare, you want to coat it fast and definety don't touch it or pre treat with anything, as it as clean as can be after blasting.
I've done entire cars and trucks with the above procedure and still own some of the trucks that I painted 15 years ago. I know what holds up.
Got lot's of pictures of my work.
My 71 has etch primer all over it.
I agree with every word to the letter . 
It's funny when clueless people would give advice on something they have no experience with.
Etching primer is always recommended to be applied before any other primer for ultimate adhesion,after etching primer any primer system can be used,epoxy or 2k primer-surfacer or sealer.As always, read tech sheets before use. 
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: Challenger 1]
#689618
05/05/10 09:23 PM
05/05/10 09:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,922
new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,922
new berlin wisconsin
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PPG certified painter here.
it's not recommended to acid etch prime sand blasted metal. because the acid flows into the blasted craters and will bleed into the top coats.
with that said i etch prime sand blasted metal all of the time. just remember not to top coat it with anything for a few days and you will be fine.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: Mr T2U]
#689619
05/05/10 09:46 PM
05/05/10 09:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,234
BFE
vancamp
super street
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super street
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,234
BFE
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PPg's tech sheets says not to etch over blasted metal and do not use epoxy over etch primer. the attatchment is a tech sheet on their dpx etch primer
Last edited by vancamp; 05/05/10 09:47 PM.
VanCamp Dent Systems
Paintless Dent Repair/
Mopar Restification
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: Challenger 1]
#689620
05/05/10 09:47 PM
05/05/10 09:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
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Kasey
I honestly thought the exact same thing you wrote. what is the difference if there is bead pit versus 80 grit channels? I dont think any really, both gives tooth, thats about it. My cuda project, my demon, the 65HPP d100 we did, and the charger have all been etch/acid primed from bare metal, nothing lifting off yet. I do it the same way a very light translucent coat.
I guess I just didnt go to college for body work so I couldnt say either way, It just didnt make any sence to me.
Kasey
wow, Yes it's ok to use etch primer first on bare metal, it's recomended.
First off I don't see any difference between blasted and sanded ground metal. it get's treated the same imo.
I have done lots of sand/media blasting and paint work over the years(25).
As soon as I'm done blasting when I have bare white metal before I even touch it, I paint it. The first coat of paint is etching primer. 1 light coat, it's translucent and provides a chemical advantage for top coats. Then within 1 hour or so the second and third coats are epoxy primer. Then at that point within 24 hours if I can, I apply the top coat without any scuffing or sanding. Like say the bottem of your car or inside the car. Wet on wet is best for best results.
Some people will say epoxy directly on bare blasted metal but using etch primer first is better.
Once your metal is blasted bare, you want to coat it fast and definety don't touch it or pre treat with anything, as it as clean as can be after blasting.
I've done entire cars and trucks with the above procedure and still own some of the trucks that I painted 15 years ago. I know what holds up.
Got lot's of pictures of my work.
My 71 has etch primer all over it.
Last edited by moparnut426; 05/05/10 09:48 PM.
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: vancamp]
#689623
05/05/10 10:01 PM
05/05/10 10:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
PPg's tech sheets says not to etch over blasted metal and do not use epoxy over etch primer. the attatchment is a tech sheet on their dpx etch primer
That's not the etch primer paint I use, PPG I thinks it's DX1791 wash primer or something like that or I use Dupont Variprime which is the same thing, a little cheaper.
But your right, that etch primer advises against it, but wrong etch primer for blasted cars.
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: elitecustombody]
#689624
05/05/10 10:19 PM
05/05/10 10:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is it ok to use the acid etching primer on blasted bare metal? I have never heard this, and dont understand the difference in blasted metal, or ground on metal?
Just asking to clear up my head.
Kasey
wow, Yes it's ok to use etch primer first on bare metal, it's recomended.
First off I don't see any difference between blasted and sanded ground metal. it get's treated the same imo.
I have done lots of sand/media blasting and paint work over the years(25).
As soon as I'm done blasting when I have bare white metal before I even touch it, I paint it. The first coat of paint is etching primer. 1 light coat, it's translucent and provides a chemical advantage for top coats. Then within 1 hour or so the second and third coats are epoxy primer. Then at that point within 24 hours if I can, I apply the top coat without any scuffing or sanding. Like say the bottem of your car or inside the car. Wet on wet is best for best results.
Some people will say epoxy directly on bare blasted metal but using etch primer first is better.
Once your metal is blasted bare, you want to coat it fast and definety don't touch it or pre treat with anything, as it as clean as can be after blasting.
I've done entire cars and trucks with the above procedure and still own some of the trucks that I painted 15 years ago. I know what holds up.
Got lot's of pictures of my work.
My 71 has etch primer all over it.
I agree with every word to the letter .
It's funny when clueless people would give advice on something they have no experience with.
Etching primer is always recommended to be applied before any other primer for ultimate adhesion,after etching primer any primer system can be used,epoxy or 2k primer-surfacer or sealer.As always, read tech sheets before use.
...with you guys, I've been painting cars, bikes, trucks, speed boats for over 30 years now,...and I basically tried every manufacturers product or "system" over the decades,...I'm generally a consumer of Dupont products, I do prefere the high end componets,....but the base is always the same, blasted or sanded metal coated immediately with Dupont Vari-Prime, 1 flash coat followed by a good med 2nd coat, allow to dry 1-2 days, followed by a Dupont 2K primer surfacer coat, then blocked, reprimed, Euro-soft putty for small defects/shallow lows,...I generally have all the metal work, with bondo to an extreme minimum done before I apply the Etch primer,....I feel that after etching/2K priming the car should be in just the blocking stage, all major bodywork done prior to etch priming,...If you choose to use the DuPont line, AVOID the Dupont/NASON crap,...pure junk....Dupont Vari-Prime, 2K primer, and a BC/CC in Chroma Premier will result in a show quality finish that will last for years
Mike
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Re: ETCHING PRIMER ON SAND BLASTED METAL??
[Re: Challenger 1]
#689625
05/05/10 11:15 PM
05/05/10 11:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
375inStroke
Special needs person
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Special needs person
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
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DPX170 and 171 say not to spray over media blasted metal, and not to topcoat with epoxy. DX1791 is not to be used over media blasted metal, either, but may be topcoated with epoxy. Why would one want to spend the money on quality products, and go against the advisement of the manufacturer? They put the resources into testing their products, but you think you know better? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I would think the manufacturer has good reasons for their recommendations, and I don't have the resources or knowledge to be able to disagree with them. Does anyone know why they recommend the opposite of what others here are doing? This is what PPG says about DP40 Epoxy Primer: Film build of 1.2–1.5 mils of DPLF is required or the surface must be treated with Metal Cleaner/Conditioner or coated with DX 1791/1792 [self etch/wash primer]. You can't do both, though. I don't have any recent experience with automotive coatings. Many here have experience, and apparently haven't had problems going against the recommendations of the manufacturers, but without knowing the reasons for their recommendations, and under what conditions you could have success deviating from them, I wouldn't.
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