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Brakes pull right **UPDATE** #671040
04/15/10 09:39 PM
04/15/10 09:39 PM
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Slantytown
DUFFMAN Offline OP
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1972 B-body with 4 wheels drum brakes.

-Completely replaced in 2008. All wheel cylinders, hardware, shoes, lines, hoses, etc.
-No problems the last 2 years. Pulled it out of storage this year and now I have the problem.
-Front brake hoses were leaking at the wheel cylinder this spring. Tightened them and they don't leak anymore.
-I'm running Dot 5 fluid that has turned yellow, but from the info I've found this is normal and not a problem.
-I've bled the front brakes, there was no air in the lines.
-I've adjusted the shoes out so they barely drag on the drums.
-I've switched tires side to side.
-After driving it for a while the problem goes away, then the right side heats up and pulses like a warped rotor.

I've run out of ideas. What else should I check?

Last edited by DUFFMAN; 05/07/10 01:04 PM.

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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: DUFFMAN] #671041
04/15/10 09:59 PM
04/15/10 09:59 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Open up the left side and see if anything is not kosher and take the right drum in and have it checked for warpage


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: RapidRobert] #671042
04/15/10 10:13 PM
04/15/10 10:13 PM
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Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
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I once had trouble with a sticky rear drum on my pickup because the glue under the brake pad partially let go so the pad material would grab the inside of the drum and bunch-up all the sudden. I could see something like this causing all sorts of fun on the front end of something.

The second time I had a pulling problem was when I ended up with a weak front shock on one side which caused the truck to nosedive/lean to one side just enough that you had to steer it while applying the brakes. There was nothing wrong with the brakes, but it sure felt like it.

Re: Brakes pull right [Re: RapidRobert] #671043
04/15/10 10:15 PM
04/15/10 10:15 PM
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Slantytown
DUFFMAN Offline OP
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I've removed both drums. I did find a problem with the adjuster cable on the left side, it was pinned behind the guide. I fixed it, then ran the adjuster out just enough to get the shoes to drag on the drum.

Then I went to the right side, removed the drum and ran the adjuster in so that the wheel moved freely. Took it for a test drive. The pedal felt firmer, but it still pulled right.


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: Neil] #671044
04/15/10 10:18 PM
04/15/10 10:18 PM
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Let me add that at the same time the brakes where done the whole front suspension and steering system was rebuilt. New tie rods, ball joints, shocks, and bushings. The front end is tight. Tires where also new at the time. I also checked tire pressure. Both tires are at 35 psi.


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: DUFFMAN] #671045
04/15/10 10:22 PM
04/15/10 10:22 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

The pedal felt firmer, but it still pulled right.


I'd spoon both up until they are locked solid then w a slightly bent thin screwdriver push back the tab so you can loosen the adjuster until the wheels are just barely (but completely) free then adj both back tight again until you reach a point where as you by hand spinning the wheel forward you reach a point where you hear but do not feel (it slowing the wheel down) a slight "tick" at ONE point in the circumference of the rotation. this will get each side exactly equal (& adjusted properly)


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: Neil] #671046
04/16/10 09:00 AM
04/16/10 09:00 AM
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Quote:

I once had trouble with a sticky rear drum on my pickup because the glue under the brake pad partially let go so the pad material would grab the inside of the drum and bunch-up all the sudden. I could see something like this causing all sorts of fun on the front end of something.





Non of the adjustments I'm doing seem to work, so maybe I'll try replacing the shoes. They aren't that expensive anyway.


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: DUFFMAN] #671047
04/16/10 09:05 AM
04/16/10 09:05 AM
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Orange Park, FL
MRHWS Offline
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I'm wondering if one of the drums has been turned a little more than the others?


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: MRHWS] #671048
04/16/10 09:46 AM
04/16/10 09:46 AM
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Graz, Austria
DGS Offline
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Have you checked the wheel cylinders? Sounds like the left side is maybe stuck.

Re: Brakes pull right [Re: DGS] #671049
04/16/10 10:02 AM
04/16/10 10:02 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Have you checked the wheel cylinders? Sounds like the left side is maybe stuck.


After more thought that sure sounds like a good possibility


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: RapidRobert] #671050
04/16/10 01:35 PM
04/16/10 01:35 PM
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Wheel cylinders were both replaced with the rest of the brake sytem. Both looked fine when I took the drums off. The left one must be moving or I wouldn't have gained firmness in the pedal when I adjusted the pads out.

The oddest part of the problem is that it goes away after you drive the car and use the brakes a few times. Then a little while later it develops a vibration from the right when braking.

Note that I have driven this car the last 2 summers on the current brake job without any issues. This has only been a problem since I started driving it this season. So something happened during storage over the winter.


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: RapidRobert] #671051
04/16/10 11:01 PM
04/16/10 11:01 PM
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Quote:

I'd spoon both up until they are locked solid then w a slightly bent thin screwdriver push back the tab so you can loosen the adjuster until the wheels are just barely (but completely) free then adj both back tight again until you reach a point where as you by hand spinning the wheel forward you reach a point where you hear but do not feel (it slowing the wheel down) a slight "tick" at ONE point in the circumference of the rotation. this will get each side exactly equal (& adjusted properly)




Alright I think I got it. I'll have to drive it again to be sure.

I sort of lied that I had replaced ALL the hardware. I did the normal hardare kit but only replaced the cable fo the adjuster and not the spring, lever and adjuster itself.

I pulled the drums back off tonight. Next I had my wife push the pedal while I watched the left brake assembly. I noticed that even with the shoes extended the adjuster cable was not taunt (the one that got pinned under the guide and is now deformed). So after we went to dinner I stopped and picked up adjuster kits for both sides.

When I got home I replaced the adjuster cable, guide, lever, spring and screw. My first test drive didn't go so well, I had little to no braking power. So I put it back in the garage, jacked it up and manually adjusted the brakes per the quote above. I took it for a test drive after. At first it still pulled right, but that went away quickly, after about the third time I hit the brakes. The brakes are ultra sensitive now and I have plenty of pedal, much more than I had before.

I'll try and take it for a drive again tomorrow and I'll post how it acts.

Thanks to everyone who responded.


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: DUFFMAN] #671052
04/17/10 01:10 AM
04/17/10 01:10 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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holler back tomorrow as we're missing something, it should not be pulling to either side even for 1 or 2 stops. The side opposite the side it is being pulled to is not doing enough braking for some reason


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: RapidRobert] #671053
04/17/10 07:55 AM
04/17/10 07:55 AM
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It was pulling right at first, but not nearly to the extent that it was, it was a very, very slight pull. In fact I'm not even sure that it wasn't just my mind telling me it was pulling because that's what I expect out of it now. If that makes sense.

But I agree, I'm still not 100% convinced I've fixed the root problem. But, I definetely did fix a problem. After watching the left brake with the drum off it was obvious that the left adjuster was not functioning properly. This is also reinforced by how the brake pedal feels now.

I'll get it out on the road sometime today and I'll post the results.


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: RapidRobert] #671054
04/17/10 09:53 PM
04/17/10 09:53 PM
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Took it up the street earlier today and it still pulls right for the first 2 stops then it seems to be fine. It's much better than it was, and I think I did fix one problem, but there is still something wrong. I do have a brand new pair of brake hoses sitting on my work bench, maybe I should replace those and see what happens?


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: DUFFMAN] #671055
04/17/10 10:04 PM
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I was thinking about this today and my 1st thought yesterday was that maybe the contact pads were hanging up the inside edge of a shoe but then I remembered that it happened IN STORAGE and that made me think what a prior poster posted which was a wheel cyl got rusty a bit while sitting possibly from a bit of water sitting unmolested in the bottom of the bore. How does this sound: grab a new pair of cotter keys and pull the drums again and you press the brake a bit (not too far as you know you dont want the cups to come out) and 2 helpers on each side and have them tell you if both sides are moving (at the same time and equally) AND you hit the brake hard (er) w a block of wood under the pedal to as above to limit it's travel and see if either of these 2 tests make anything abnormal show up at the shoes


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: RapidRobert] #671056
04/17/10 10:50 PM
04/17/10 10:50 PM
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East Central Illinois
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you have a lazy left front wheel cyl, it's not that its not working,its slow to respond.the right side comes on sooner than the left so it pulls right. change the left cylinder and you will be good. jeff57....by the way i own a brake and muffler shop...

Re: Brakes pull right [Re: jeff57] #671057
04/18/10 08:52 AM
04/18/10 08:52 AM
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Since the pull isn't anywhere near as bad as when I started, and it seems to go away after braking a couple of times, maybe I'll just drive it the way it is for now and see if the left wheel cylinder comes back. If it doesn't in a few weeks than I'll order another.


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Re: Brakes pull right [Re: DUFFMAN] #671058
04/18/10 09:11 AM
04/18/10 09:11 AM
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MI, usa
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For what it's worth I've had both shoes and drums cause a pull. Even with a very nice finish on both drums that were cut to the same diameter. Switching the shoes or drums from side to side moved the direction of the pull. I would agree in your case to check the wheel cylinders,shoes,and drums since the pull goes away with use or temperature change. I would eliminate suspension,tires,return springs in your case. Another factor over looked are the backing plate pads. I have welded grooved plates and caliper mounts where they are worn.
Doug

Re: Brakes pull right [Re: dvw] #671059
05/07/10 01:03 PM
05/07/10 01:03 PM
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Problem solved!

Saturday I ordered new shoes and hardware from Rock Auto and they finally show up on my porch yesterday. So last night did a standard brake job. Long story short, the left side shoes were contaminated. There was some sort of a black substance (looks like wet brake dust) along the edge of the shoes and along the edge of the backing plate. I suspect that this is brake fluid (from the previously mentioned leaking hose) mixed with brake dust. This wasn't easily visible until I actually removed the shoes because the backing plates are black and my garage isn't well lit. That's why I didn't see the problem simply removing the drum.

Anyway, I cleaned the drum surfaces, cleaned out the backing plates, then replaced the shoes and hardware. No all is fine and the car is braking even.

I was pretty busy last night because I had to do some maintenence on my DD for a road trip this weekend so I didn't get a chance to snap pictures. I will try to add some next week.


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