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383 won't start when hot #658435 04/01/10 08:30 PM 04/01/10 08:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	Hi, I'm looking for possible solutions: 67 coronet 383 2bl, auto, point distrbutor, car runs great, accelerates good and does not ping or run on after being shut off. factory heat guage within spec and does not boil over when shut off. starts great when cold but barley turnes over after driving 25 miles.When I say barley turnes over I mean perhaps 1/2 a crank and the battery sounds dead, yes it has started, but somethings not kosher. any comments will be appreciated....thanks...ps....I just went out after letting it cool down (45 minutes) and the car starts great Last edited by GOLDMYN; 04/01/10 08:34 PM. Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658436 04/01/10 08:43 PM 04/01/10 08:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	heat soak in the starter. battery internal cell going bad. cables/terminals need cleaning. eng friction sky high when hot. In order: easy to sub in a known good batt then clean (all large)cables from post to post then check turning torque w 1&1/4" socket/breaker bar when hot then another starter live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: RapidRobert] #658437 04/01/10 09:17 PM 04/01/10 09:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	Thanks, but why would the car start great after 45 minutes of cool down if 1. bad connections, 2. battery cell bad? and I don't understand what the 1 1/8 socket would do? . what would cause sky high friction? Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658438 04/01/10 09:31 PM 04/01/10 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,978 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,978 Grand Prairie,Texas	Use the 1 1/4" socket and breaker bar or 1/2" drive ratchet on the crankshaft bolt to turn the engine over cold then try it again after it's hot to see what the difference is. It shouldn't be very much harder to turn over hot. Make sure the key is out of the ignition. If it isn't any harder to turn then you know it's not the engine causing your problem.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: stumpy] #658439 04/01/10 10:03 PM 04/01/10 10:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	Thanks, Suppose the engine DOES turn over harder when hot. What would be the cause?. This motor has been rebuilt. Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658440 04/01/10 10:23 PM 04/01/10 10:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	Forged pistons and not enough clearance???

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: Dodgem] #658441 04/01/10 10:56 PM 04/01/10 10:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	I have no idea what was done to this engine, it was rebuilt in 1991 and has been driven appr 10K miles and i would have thought any major problems would have been taken care of. Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658442 04/01/10 11:36 PM 04/01/10 11:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan MNobody master
MNobody master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan	Make a heat shield for the starter out of a piece of thin metal, i used a piece of stovepipe back in the day. If the previous owner installed a heavy duty starter they are longer and sit closer to the manifold therefore they get hotter.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: MNobody] #658443 04/01/10 11:38 PM 04/01/10 11:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan MNobody master
MNobody master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan	Check the timing, may be too far advanced causing hard start when warm.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658444 04/02/10 01:17 AM 04/02/10 01:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,255 State of Fascism 5 52savoy master
52savoy master 5 Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,255 State of Fascism	CLAMP ON AMP PROBE I've used them on 240-440 phase AC motors and starter relays but never used one on 12v DC. But if you have a probe, clamp it over the battery to starter cable and watch it as the engine heats up. If the AMP reading changes as the motor heats up, it's either the starter or cable or both. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...00001&aff=Y

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: 52savoy] #658445 04/02/10 01:59 AM 04/02/10 01:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	I had the same problem, turned out to be the voltage regulator was junk. Amp gauge didn't show anything out of the ordinary(which isn't much to begin with). I guess it was either not charging or just barely charging. It would start up fine when cold, but give me nothing when hot. New v-reg and problem solved.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658446 04/02/10 02:41 AM 04/02/10 02:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	My 70 Charger has similar symptoms. When cold or after a reasonable cool down, it spins over fine. A warm restart gives me slow cranking. I have about 4000 miles on the rebuild. I have tried different batteries, starters and even a heavy 2 guage ground strap with ZERO difference. I was thinking that the thermal expansion of the pistons could be to blame as well. I file fitted the rings to .022 like I was instructed and the piston to wall clearance was supposed to be .005. I had the heads off last year trying to fix a smoking problem and every cylinder looked great...No signs of grooves or scuffing. So what the heck?[

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658447 04/02/10 06:08 AM 04/02/10 06:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,623 Millinocket, Maine J JonC master
JonC master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,623 Millinocket, Maine	Vacuum advance hooked up to wrong port on carburetor.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: JonC] #658448 04/02/10 07:36 AM 04/02/10 07:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	I went back over the receipts I got with the car and there is a pattern, They replaced 4 starters, over the course of 10 years, it does show that the problem existed for awhile.As far as bad voltage regulator, the battery is charging because when it cools down it cranks and starts fine. 2. wrong vacumn advance hook up?, its a 2bl carb, can only hook up to one port? any more thoughts?..thanks again Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658449 04/02/10 08:19 AM 04/02/10 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 106 Australia C charger RTSE member
charger RTSE member C Joined: May 2007 Posts: 106 Australia	I always run an extra earth battery size cable from the engine to the subframe and remove any paint from in between all earth points.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: charger RTSE] #658450 04/02/10 10:21 AM 04/02/10 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,327 Great White North W Wheeler Master
Wheeler Master W Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,327 Great White North	As 52 Savoy mentioned above, check the battery cables and starter for excessive resistance. Take a look at this old thread on moparts: Slow Cranking cold and especially hot Hope this helps - good luck. Last edited by Wheeler; 04/02/10 10:25 AM.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658451 04/02/10 10:48 AM 04/02/10 10:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,327 Great White North W Wheeler Master
Wheeler Master W Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,327 Great White North	Quote: 2. wrong vacumn advance hook up?, its a 2bl carb, can only hook up to one port? any more thoughts?..thanks again Wrong vacuum advance hookup on the carb would not cause the starter to crank slow. The following would cause slow cranking: - Weak battery - Worn out starter - Too much resistance in the battery cables - Poor or dirty battery connections - Not enough power going to the starting circuit - Ignition timing out to lunch - Thick oil in the engine - Tight engine clearances Last edited by Wheeler; 04/02/10 11:04 AM.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: Wheeler] #658452 04/02/10 12:10 PM 04/02/10 12:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	Thanks for the read, his problem was slow cranking when cold, my engine turns over normal when cold, but it is food for thought... Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658453 04/02/10 12:54 PM 04/02/10 12:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: As far as bad voltage regulator, the battery is charging because when it cools down it cranks and starts fine. I'm sorry but that's exactly what mine did when the v-reg crapped out. Would fire up perfect when cold, I drove it to an empty parking lot to do some WOT launches to dial in the carb a bit. Did that for a while and turned it off. Fired it up a minute later and it cranked over slow. Some more launches and I turned it off and tried to fire it up again 1 minute later. Got nothing. Rur... click. Let it cool down 30 minutes and it fired back up again just fine. Did the same thing after taking it for a long drive around town. Go cruising around for a half hour, come home, stop in the driveway, key off and it wouldn't crank over. Let it cool 1/2 hour come back outside and it cranked over perfect. Changed the voltage reg and problem gone. Not saying this is your problem, but I highly suggest bringing along a spare charged battery and a set of booster cables just to verify this to not be a problem. Takes more juice to turn over a hot motor than a cold one, so it's possible your battery is only charging marginally like mine was.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #658454 04/02/10 01:02 PM 04/02/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	thank-you, any chance it might be the starter relay on the firewall? Last edited by GOLDMYN; 04/02/10 01:06 PM. Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658455 04/02/10 11:41 PM 04/02/10 11:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan MNobody master
MNobody master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan	Did you check the timing?

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658456 04/02/10 11:57 PM 04/02/10 11:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,393 St. Charles, MO wingman Uncreative Title
wingman Uncreative Title Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,393 St. Charles, MO	Quote: thank-you, any chance it might be the starter relay on the firewall? If you want to rule out the relay, you can jumper across the two terminals on the starter itself with a wire or screwdriver, and see if your symptoms improve. This test is similar to jumping across at the starter relay on the firewall, but even more direct. If you have bad wire connections anywhere, or bad wiring, this will show you. I had a burnt brown wire once--the starter would crank strong when jumpered at the starter, but crank weakly or just click when jumpered at the relay. 1969 Dodge Coronet Super Bee 383 A4 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 440 FC7 (sold)

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: wingman] #658457 04/03/10 01:52 AM 04/03/10 01:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 902 Seattle, WA R rss super stock
rss super stock R Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 902 Seattle, WA	I was wrestling with a hot start issue with my 383 Cuda last summer. Finally ended up putting in one of the mini-starters from a late model ram pickup. Hot start issue disappeared. Difference in fire up was AMAZING due to the speed of the mini-starter. Now it starts like a new car, although every now and then I miss the old growl of a "real" mopar starter.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: rss] #658458 04/03/10 09:17 AM 04/03/10 09:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	I'm taking the weekend off and we'll tackle the problem next week, thanks for all the comments and we will check the timing along with all the other suggestion. Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658459 04/03/10 11:14 AM 04/03/10 11:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,530 Nunya CA CR8CRSHR master
CR8CRSHR master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,530 Nunya CA	Perhaps the Carb is an issue. You did not specify what you are running. But with my 383 4bbl I have a cracked carb. It is from Edelbrock which I come to find out are crap. Might check that as well. Mini starter is the only way to go. Dump that antique Mopar unit for the newer mini starter...

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: CR8CRSHR] #658460 04/03/10 08:53 PM 04/03/10 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,907 Athens, Greece Pyper70 master
Pyper70 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,907 Athens, Greece	How about Vapor lock...if you are boiling the fuel over because the heat of the engine rises due to insufficient cooling when the engine is off, the fuel will turn into vapor inside your fuel line. When your engine cools down enough the fuel becomes a liquid state again, ready to fire up again. Try a Phenolic spacer Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: Pyper70] #658461 04/04/10 02:34 AM 04/04/10 02:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 902 Seattle, WA R rss super stock
rss super stock R Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 902 Seattle, WA	Quote: How about Vapor lock...if you are boiling the fuel over because the heat of the engine rises due to insufficient cooling when the engine is off, the fuel will turn into vapor inside your fuel line. When your engine cools down enough the fuel becomes a liquid state again, ready to fire up again. Try a Phenolic spacer Original poster stated car turned over slowly (like dead battery) when hot. That would not result from a hot fuel/vapor lock type of issue. My money is on the starter.

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658462 04/07/10 07:29 PM 04/07/10 07:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 137 Kenosha, WI wi/il border B BobN member
BobN member B Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 137 Kenosha, WI wi/il border	what about a banana in the tailpipe(as in singular)? No? just wondering. So what is the update on this situation ?

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: BobN] #658463 04/08/10 03:15 PM 04/08/10 03:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	Looks like MNoBODY wins the free trip trip to ARUBA with the sex star of his choice...the timing was advanced a good 15 degrees and to be safe, I put a lightweight starter and new cables on. Its going to be awhile before I can dupicated driving condition but I think I got it...Thanks for all the suggestions Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658464 04/08/10 04:12 PM 04/08/10 04:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Looks like MNoBODY wins the free trip trip to ARUBA with the sex star of his choice...the timing was advanced a good 15 degrees Are you sure it wasn't eng friction/dirty cables/bad battery or the starter . Glad ya got it live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: 52savoy] #658465 04/08/10 04:39 PM 04/08/10 04:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 290 Loveland Colorado J jake71 enthusiast
jake71 enthusiast J Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 290 Loveland Colorado	Quote: CLAMP ON AMP PROBE I've used them on 240-440 phase AC motors and starter relays but never used one on 12v DC. But if you have a probe, clamp it over the battery to starter cable and watch it as the engine heats up. If the AMP reading changes as the motor heats up, it's either the starter or cable or both. Clamp on style amp probes only work on alternating current. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...00001&aff=Y

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: jake71] #658466 04/10/10 03:05 PM 04/10/10 03:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi G GOLDMYN OP top fuel
GOLDMYN OP top fuel G Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,960 Kenosha, Wi	The weather was nice today so we took the Coronet out for a 40 mile trip, got it nice and hot, came home and shut it off.... and hit the key....started right up!! thanks again Moparts Semper Fi

Re: 383 won't start when hot [Re: GOLDMYN] #658467 04/10/10 04:55 PM 04/10/10 04:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 521 Port Hope, Ontario T TheMoparJunky mopar addict
TheMoparJunky mopar addict T Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 521 Port Hope, Ontario	If your voltage regulator ever becomes a problem, check the temp on it. It is just a resistor. They will get hot but not paint melting hot, usually you can check the ohms across it(I think-there is a test). But I have overhauled 1 starter 3 times and each time trued the commutator, cleaned the brushes and checked it for normal voltage drops but it still would eat it up after being hot. Armatures and stators will go bad. The windings might short internally and never be noticeable from the outside. And it's cheaper to get a new armature than spending the money to rewind it. Heat shields work, larger positive cables and ground cables(I've used welding cables-they seem to work fine). Make sure you have a good ground and your solenoid is good across the poles, (for 4 speeds-proper clutch pedal play). It is just a math problem-take out the variables. Compression should never be an issue-11:1 motors start up fine with just a high amp battery. But more vacuum will create more work for the rotating assy.-i.e.-turning with the throttle closed is harder than with it wide open-it's gotta suck harder through a smaller orifice. The Mopar Junky Back off the Mopar bandwagon- Wannabe Millwright Enjoying the fat lazy unemployed life

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