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727 front drum clutchs #627108 02/28/10 04:46 PM 02/28/10 04:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	First thing is.. these new trans kits with afco red clutchs. Are the clutchs the same for rear and front clutchs ?.. front drum I got. I could put 6 clutchs in..plus some LOL Now I know something up with this drum because the snap ring grove is very high in it. Did they make a drum for a eary 518 for a truck or something that took 6 clutchs ?

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627109 02/28/10 04:55 PM 02/28/10 04:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	You did put the steels between them right

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: WILD BILL] #627110 02/28/10 04:57 PM 02/28/10 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio dartman366 I Live Here
dartman366 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio	this could get interesting. Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: dartman366] #627111 02/28/10 05:00 PM 02/28/10 05:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Boy you two are alot of help...Bill Hart drag your butt over here and look at this !

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627112 02/28/10 05:02 PM 02/28/10 05:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: WILD BILL] #627113 02/28/10 05:06 PM 02/28/10 05:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	Seriously though, all the kits I've had the clutches for the front durm were groved while the rear drum clutches were smooth. As for how many, different applications came with different # of discs in them. Fit as many as you can and still maintian the proper clearence.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: WILD BILL] #627114 02/28/10 05:15 PM 02/28/10 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio dartman366 I Live Here
dartman366 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio	Usually kit's come with thick and thin disc's, use the thin ones and add as many as you can fit in there like Bill said. Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: dartman366] #627115 02/28/10 05:18 PM 02/28/10 05:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	Or a combination of thick and thin to get the right clearence. Now back to the

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: WILD BILL] #627116 02/28/10 05:27 PM 02/28/10 05:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Well I think all the clutchs I got are thin..and this may be part of the problem..If I have 6 thick ones that would work good..I can put 5 clutchs 5 steels and TWO pressure plates in it right now !! with a .088 snap ring !..

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627117 02/28/10 08:55 PM 02/28/10 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC	My 2-cents. For a TF-727 A typical front clutch disc is about 0.095" thick. A typical rear clutch disc is about 0.062" thick. A standard steel is about 0.060" thick. Companies can make them otherwise, so this is not set in stone. And the rear ones will go in the front (same steels), so people have mixed and matched.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: 440Jim] #627118 02/28/10 09:18 PM 02/28/10 09:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Ok all my clutchs are .060 so I got all rear ..That what I thought..

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: 440Jim] #627119 02/28/10 09:20 PM 02/28/10 09:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl. D dusturbd340W5 master
dusturbd340W5 master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.	Quote: My 2-cents. For a TF-727 A typical front clutch disc is about 0.095" thick. A typical rear clutch disc is about 0.062" thick. A standard steel is about 0.060" thick. Companies can make them otherwise, so this is not set in stone. And the rear ones will go in the front (same steels), so people have mixed and matched. and the front clutch should be a grooved clutch. 70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: dusturbd340W5] #627120 02/28/10 09:26 PM 02/28/10 09:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	They are all grooved ??? thin groove clutchs..

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627121 02/28/10 11:31 PM 02/28/10 11:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl. D dusturbd340W5 master
dusturbd340W5 master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.	Quote: They are all grooved ??? thin groove clutchs.. no front clutch should be a thick grooved and the rear should be a thin smooth. 70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627122 03/01/10 04:35 PM 03/01/10 04:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA	Here's a pic of a typical rear clutch disc, semi-metallic material with diagonal slits. These aren't intended to be engaged at speed, only when standing still. 5838676-Rearcludisc.jpg (159 downloads)

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: John_Kunkel] #627123 03/01/10 04:36 PM 03/01/10 04:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA	Front discs come in a variety of configurations and lining material, the waffle pattern allows trapped fluid to escape faster than the smooth disc when applied but the waffles reduce the friction surface area. 5838677-Frontcludisc.jpg (149 downloads)

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: John_Kunkel] #627124 03/01/10 04:39 PM 03/01/10 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL G goldmember master
goldmember master G Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL	So are we saying the "waffle" clutches are a problem in the rear drum?

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627125 03/01/10 04:40 PM 03/01/10 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	Quote: They are all grooved ??? thin groove clutchs.. Vern, Can you post a pic or 2 of the clucthes you have?

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: goldmember] #627126 03/01/10 04:43 PM 03/01/10 04:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: So are we saying the "waffle" clutches are a problem in the rear drum? No, but they're usually thicker, can't fit 4 in a drum without mods and the waffles serve no real purpose in a clutch that engages when standing still. Again, the waffles reduce the friction surface. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: John_Kunkel] #627127 03/01/10 04:52 PM 03/01/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Rear clutch pack came out good.. I talk to john on the phone today..and will to him some more when I get home..I got some special drum I think LOL..but we will get to the bottom of this tonight I will let you know what I find out.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627128 03/01/10 09:21 PM 03/01/10 09:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,563 S.E. Michigan cl440 master
cl440 master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,563 S.E. Michigan	Quote: Rear clutch pack came out good.. I talk to john on the phone today..and will to him some more when I get home..I got some special drum I think LOL..but we will get to the bottom of this tonight I will let you know what I find out. I assume you are referring to John Cope. If so your in good hands! He helped us a bunch on the latest build (and previous builds)! That man is a saint!! 5839388-7434_1126379884042_1363524361_298887_744769_n.jpg (68 downloads)

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627129 03/01/10 09:29 PM 03/01/10 09:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Well after talking to John cope @ CRT. And I must add right now. This man has gone up and be on the call of duty in customer sevice..If you need a trans or parts.you realy should call him ! Now after 3-4 phone calls and taking a lot of measurements ..What I have is a 04-05 518 trans diesel 5 clutch drum..you can put 5 thick clutchs in this thing no problem..this drum is the same as a 727 dum in every way but the snap ring groove is cut higher.. But to use it I am going to have to use the rear drum also..That yet to be seen ..I going back down to the trans shop see if I can find the rear drum...Because it hits the stock rear drum. at lease now I know what I got.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627130 03/01/10 10:51 PM 03/01/10 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,147 Melbourne , Australia LA360 master
LA360 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,147 Melbourne , Australia	I know that A&A order Alto thin frictions to go in the Direct drum also. These are usually grooved, the Forward drum frictions are usually smooth. When I bought my frictions off John Cope for my 904, these are what I ran. AL.... Alan Jones

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627131 03/01/10 11:27 PM 03/01/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,050 Mooresburg, Tn ' '72CudaRacer top fuel
'72CudaRacer top fuel ' Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,050 Mooresburg, Tn	Jamie, Its been about 20 years ago, but I ran into a drum with a thin plate and a real high snap ring groove. Took a lot of clutchs to fill it up. I don't even know what it came out of, I had bought a few 727 BB cores from a junk yard. If I remember right, I set it aside and used it in a PU truck behind a 440. Its the only one I've ever run across that was like that. Brian

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: '72CudaRacer] #627132 03/01/10 11:57 PM 03/01/10 11:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	Vern, you really need to scrap that stock stuff and get a billet drum.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: WILD BILL] #627133 03/02/10 07:13 AM 03/02/10 07:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,991 Anoka County, MN L Leigh master
Leigh master L Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,991 Anoka County, MN	Quote: Vern, you really need to scrap that stock stuff and get a billet drum. TCS billet steel will get you 5 discs.

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627134 03/02/10 03:13 PM 03/02/10 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,903 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: What I have is a 04-05 518 trans diesel 5 clutch drum..you can put 5 thick clutchs in this thing no problem..this drum is the same as a 727 dum in every way but the snap ring groove is cut higher That drum is a little wider to accomodate the extra clutch, that's why you need a chamfered rear retainer to clear the extra width. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: John_Kunkel] #627135 03/02/10 04:56 PM 03/02/10 04:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Do you think you can chamfer a stock rear clutch retainer to clear ?

Re: 727 front drum clutchs [Re: VernMotor] #627136 03/02/10 04:58 PM 03/02/10 04:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor OP master
VernMotor OP master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	By The way I would to have a good front drum ..I know I should have one..But I have hurt a motor -rear end and a trans this year..I do not have 500-600 bucks to spend on one right now..

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