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Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HEMI-?
#61616
05/22/08 01:22 PM
05/22/08 01:22 PM
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Posts: 9,857
Cambridge Idaho
RUMBLON
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OK, in reasearching items for the 38 PlYmouth coupe project I have spoken to several prople, the most recent is Darrell from fatman for the front suspension. He asked what I wanted and I told him a daily driver on long haul driver thats reliable and that does not have to have huge power. He informed me that he would use the $1995.00 stage two front suspension kit and then asked what motor I was looking at the 318 or 360. I told him I was looking at doing the 5.7 conversion. His opinion is to use and older mid 70s carb 360 that will be in his opiion trouble free and a lot less expensive. i wanted the 5.7 for the originality and look, not to mention- maybe a bit more gas mileage? I am curious on what you guys reccoemnd? 360 crate motors andy good, costs on various motors and what would you do. The car is going to be a full fendered car with hood in place and I want to drive the SH&T out of it. Is a 5.7 going to be a lot more expense, I mean huge compared to a 360. is efi harder to deal with than a carb? whats up???  signed--slightly confused LAWFISH 
Last edited by LAWFISH; 05/22/08 01:30 PM.
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HEMI-?
[Re: sixpack4spd]
#61618
05/22/08 01:44 PM
05/22/08 01:44 PM
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Cambridge Idaho
RUMBLON
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Quote:
Using a carb saves you having to deal with the wiring and computer and efi fuel pump. What tranny? Do you want an overdrive? I think EFI + OD is a good combo. Isn't there a plug and play wiring harness available?
WELL the tranny needs to be an auto so the wife can drive on some longer trips, ect. I would like an OD of sorts for some help with the fuel mileage.
Dave
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HEMI-?
[Re: RUMBLON]
#61619
05/22/08 02:04 PM
05/22/08 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992
Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
Mopar Ron
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Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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Dave like I have said befor I havent yet got into the efi style engines but I have (2) 5.2 dakotas to use in the near future chassis and all.
now most of the cars I have done have been carbarated 318-440 and they have been very reliable cars and trucks.
probably the easiest way to go would be to go with a 360 with a 4bbl or 6 pack and use a 727 with a gearvendors OD unit and run a 3.23 8 3/4 and you should be able to get some pretty good mileage and have a good street cruiser.
also when I said use a fatman frontend I ment just the cross member, you can get less expencive A armes, spindles, big brakes and rack and pinion from ebay or locally.
a frontend should cost closer to $1,000 if you shop good.
I may go with a 5.7 hemi and 5 speed auto in the future if I can get a wireing harness at a reasonable price. Ron...
Last edited by Mopar Ron; 05/22/08 02:07 PM.
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: bohmer2]
#61621
05/22/08 02:37 PM
05/22/08 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,089
Sorrento, BC, Canada
4speeds4me
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Well, a carb is quick and easy, and while we haven't seen ¼ mile numbers, hotroddave40 has proven that mileage can be had with a decent little build that's thought out on a carb, and NO OD as of yet. Almost 30 mpg...
It comes down to what would serve the driver best. If I was building a car for my wife or mother, I'd do a 318 pretty much identical to Dave's and be done with it, except maybe the addition of an A-500 or 518.
2 Demons...no, not my kids! 
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: dogdays]
#61623
05/23/08 01:02 AM
05/23/08 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Cambridge Idaho
RUMBLON
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Quote:
Once you get the EFI worked out it is better than a carb for just plain driving. I can't see any way around that. The O2 sensor keeps the engine in close-to-perfect tune no matter the altitude, and where I live altitude is a real consideration.
Driving a carb car over Monarch Pass compared to a fuel injected car is a real eye-opener. My Mom lives at 1600 feet elevation so if I set the car up for 5900 feet where I live it's quite lean when i go to visit. Add to that the different compositions of winter and summer fuel and I will go EFI (if there is a choice) every time.
IF you are building a car and have the money to do it the Hemi would be grand. If you aren't quite so bucks-up them my 5.2Mag suggestion will work. I would use the MegaSquirt on the factory beer keg intake, maybe trim a little length off the runners like Hughes was doing. Use the 518 or 500 depending on vehicle weight.
Enough said, I started repeating myself.
R.
PS: I am starting to see some real deals on 4.7 engines, have you considered them?
Well, thats a great point. I live at 5200 elevation and any where I go there is a nice 9,000 pass or higher to get there or leave here. The EFI will help and I never thought of that until you mentioned it.
I will get the frame, suspension done and start the body work over the winter and see where the conversions are at that point, how much $$$ I have and what I stumble across but I am thinking the 5.7 is the way to go. I am in no hurry and want some originality.
Thanks Dave
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: dogdays]
#61624
05/23/08 01:29 AM
05/23/08 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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Carbs and electronic ignition have worked very well for many years. Trouble shooting a problem on the side of the road is pretty simple with a carb. With the right parts, a 318 can be a fun reliable cruiser with enough power to get you a ticket or two. 360s have more power and torque but get a bit less fuel milage, probably 1-2 mpg less, driven the same way.
Any efi will get slightly better consistant fuel milage then the same sized carbed version, but if something happens along the road, are you capable of troubleshooting it? A single tow in will remove any fuel milage advantage over a carb for most of the useful life of the car. The reality is many efi cars have logged many trouble free miles, so a need of road side trouble shooting may not never be a factor.
I have no experence with a 5.7, but they seem to have a lot of posibilities for problems built into them. That and the still limited parts availability would be enough to keep me away for a couple more years.
For my the choice would be either the 318 or the 360. Carbed or efi is a good question. We put 10,000 mile a year on a 35 Dodge sedan with a 318 with a small cam and an afb carb with a 904 and a 8 1/4 (323 gears) for 7 years in a row. That car was a flat trouble free, fun car to drive. The next ride was a 360 2 bbl carb, 727, 9 1/4 with 3:23 gears. The 360 was wore out, but had as much power as the camed 318, got a couple less mpg. We also put 10,000 miles a year on that one for 4 years. My current ride is a 360 thermoquad with a 727 and a 9 1/4 with 3:55 gears (its a 4x4 truck) The truck is down getting a fresh engine right now. The new 360 carbed engine is ready to in, but just a couple days ago a 318 efi Dakota arrived at my place, I'm giving serious thought to moving all the efi stuff onto the 360, just for the drivabilty improvement. This truck will be driven through the winter (think snow and -20 degrees.)
My advice would be determined by your ability to work on your own car. If you have the ability to work on a computer controled car (know how they function), do the efi, if not, stick with the carb. If 1-2 mph difference won't be an issue, go with the 360 for the "free" extra power. Gene
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: RUMBLON]
#61627
05/23/08 11:32 AM
05/23/08 11:32 AM
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dogdays
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I have well over 300K miles on factory fuel injected cars and I have NEVER had to do a "repair on the side of the road." Ditto with electronic ignitions. Well, I guess I have had fuel pump and fuel filter problems with both types. The injection fuel pump is harder to get to but I don't carry spares for either. The fuel filter on the fuel injected car didn't stop me, but I had to replace it at the next opportunity. Fuel filters on carb cars generally do require the "repair at the side of the road."
I have had plenty of problems with vapor lock on carbureted cars but never on fuel injected cars.
Now I have had a float stick open and soak the top of the engine with gasoline, thankfully it did not ignite, and I DID have to take the top off the carb because that float or needle was STUCK. I also had a rubbing block come off the points and kill the engine, that took a "repair by the side of the road."
R.
PS: LA motors are 273, 318, 340, 360. The 2-4s on the 273 should bolt right on unless the bolt holes are for the '64-'65 273 and then they will need to be modified with a rattail file. Once the intake is on there are NO durability problems with the conversion.
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: dogdays]
#61628
05/23/08 11:16 PM
05/23/08 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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My post was not to imply that efi was any more problem prone then a carbed car was, it was simply to point out that IF a problem did occure would he have a ability to do a roadside repair. I have logged many miles without any problem, but have also been with several car club members that were not as lucky as I have been. I also understand that there are a huge number of people out there driving hot rods that don't have a clue how to fix anything on them. I can tell you that when we are with a group and someone has a problem, if the car has a carb, there are more willing to lend a hand then if it was efi. There are simply more repairable things that can happen along the road that can be fixed on a carbed car then there is that can be fixed on an efi equiped car along the road.
Since the request was for info, I suppose the responce should have been: If a problem occures along the road, more people can help you if you have a carbed engine then if you have injection. Sad as it may be, most people simply do not understand how efi is suppose to work, so when it doesn't, they are lost.
I'll craw back under my rock now. Gene
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: poorboy]
#61629
05/23/08 11:31 PM
05/23/08 11:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,857
Cambridge Idaho
RUMBLON
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Quote:
My post was not to imply that efi was any more problem prone then a carbed car was, it was simply to point out that IF a problem did occure would he have a ability to do a roadside repair. I have logged many miles without any problem, but have also been with several car club members that were not as lucky as I have been. I also understand that there are a huge number of people out there driving hot rods that don't have a clue how to fix anything on them. I can tell you that when we are with a group and someone has a problem, if the car has a carb, there are more willing to lend a hand then if it was efi. There are simply more repairable things that can happen along the road that can be fixed on a carbed car then there is that can be fixed on an efi equiped car along the road.
Since the request was for info, I suppose the responce should have been: If a problem occures along the road, more people can help you if you have a carbed engine then if you have injection. Sad as it may be, most people simply do not understand how efi is suppose to work, so when it doesn't, they are lost.
I'll craw back under my rock now. Gene
Gene all of your info is greatly appreciated. It gives me a lot to think about.
Dave
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: RUMBLON]
#61631
05/24/08 08:19 AM
05/24/08 08:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,396
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
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Posts: 19,396
north of coder
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Quote:
I have a question? Will a 273 intake work on a 318/360. is it an L.A motor. I know of a guy locally who has a dual quad 2x4 273 intake manifold????
Dave
a 273 intake will fit. however, i think the ports are way small, and the attaching bolts are machined at a slightly different angle, requiring the holes in the intake to be ovaled out. if you can get it real cheap, i would say go for it. 
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: moparx]
#61632
05/24/08 09:57 PM
05/24/08 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 444
Loma Linda, MO
7812845
mopar
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mopar
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Loma Linda, MO
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Street and Performance in Mena, Arkansas has good info on 5.7's in street rods, might talk to them.
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Re: Which 1,4 a daily driver- 360CARB-360EFI-340-5.7 HE
[Re: 7812845]
#61633
05/26/08 02:35 PM
05/26/08 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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If you have the $$, I'd get a pull-out 5.7/A580 5 speed auto combo from an LX, leave it pretty much stock, or a 5.7/545RE out of a truck, I'd keep the MDS functional.
if you want to go a little cheaper, I'd probably look to a 5.2 mag motor, and keep the beer keg/EFI...if you found one that needed to be rebuilt, I'd run some KB167's at 0 deck, .039" gasket, and probably a comp XR258HR cam, some headers, the throttle body opened up to twin 50mm bore, and some 24# ford injectors. you may be able to use a factory computer to run it, but I'd probably contact board member Jerry for a megasquirt.
for a tranny with the mag motor, you could go a couple different routes. if the megasquirt or EFI controller you choose will control a 42RE, you could go that route. or you could go a 42RH and use the PATC method of controlling OD/lockup with hydraulic switches off of the governor port. with the OD's I'd look at a 3.55 rear gear with a 28" tall tire. or you could use a lockup 904 coupled with a high rear gear, like a 2.76 or 2.45 if the car is fairly light.
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