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Which Firm Feel Box? #585381 01/17/10 02:14 PM 01/17/10 02:14 PM
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 249 Kahleefahwniah 6 69CopperCoronet OP enthusiast
69CopperCoronet OP enthusiast 6 Joined: May 2007 Posts: 249 Kahleefahwniah	Who's running a Firm Feel power steerring box and what stage are you running? How is the feel of each stage, how do you like it? What is best for a B-Body that sees mostly street driving?

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 69CopperCoronet] #585382 01/17/10 02:21 PM 01/17/10 02:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass DAYCLONA I Live Here
DAYCLONA I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass	I run Stage III, it's good with a stock sized steering wheel, really no noticable effort needed, but something custom or TUFF wheel style, takes a little effort,....but the improvement in feel/turning/handling is greatly enhanced,.....you won't feel like your at the helm of the Titanic anymore trying to turn FWIW, a lot of guys that went stage II, felt they should have opted for firmer (III) performance

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 69CopperCoronet] #585383 01/17/10 09:25 PM 01/17/10 09:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 338 Montreal Quebec STROKIE enthusiast
STROKIE enthusiast Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 338 Montreal Quebec	I use Stage 1 Firm Feel steering box on my Charger 1967 I can say this is a good choice. Try it I think you gonna like it ...

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: STROKIE] #585384 01/18/10 12:03 AM 01/18/10 12:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,278 San Jose, California D DennisH Vacation
DennisH Vacation D Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,278 San Jose, California	69 Coronet R/T. Stage 1. Nice. Next time I would get the Stage 2.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: DennisH ] #585385 01/18/10 01:11 AM 01/18/10 01:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,516 Santa Cruz, California L Lefty master
Lefty master L Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,516 Santa Cruz, California	I have a stage II with a 13.5" wheel. It combines for a nice firm feel...

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: DAYCLONA] #585386 01/18/10 10:05 AM 01/18/10 10:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 403 30 miles west of EuroDisney fbernard mopar
fbernard mopar Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 403 30 miles west of EuroDisney	Quote: FWIW, a lot of guys that went stage II, felt they should have opted for firmer (III) performance I second that (I don't own one, I have a rack & pinion setup with a Tuff wheel on a RMS AlterKtion on one car, and a stock setup on my other Chally). I tried the Stage II box on a friend's Chally which has just been restored (the front-end was completely rebuilt). It feels too light in my opinion (steering is still possible with my little finger, which I always find scary at speed). I used to have a manual box before I switched to the AlterKtion, and all I can tell you is "Don't be afraid to get a Stage III, there's a loooooong way to go between this and a manual box". I will most likely replace the steering box in my convertible with a Stage III.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: fbernard] #585387 01/20/10 02:42 PM 01/20/10 02:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 199 douglasville,ga R ramrod member
ramrod member R Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 199 douglasville,ga	Quote: Quote: FWIW, a lot of guys that went stage II, felt they should have opted for firmer (III) performance I second that (I don't own one, I have a rack & pinion setup with a Tuff wheel on a RMS AlterKtion on one car, and a stock setup on my other Chally). I tried the Stage II box on a friend's Chally which has just been restored (the front-end was completely rebuilt). It feels too light in my opinion (steering is still possible with my little finger, which I always find scary at speed). I used to have a manual box before I switched to the AlterKtion, and all I can tell you is "Don't be afraid to get a Stage III, there's a loooooong way to go between this and a manual box". I will most likely replace the steering box in my convertible with a Stage III. I'll 3rd that. I went with a stage II and use a tuff wheel. My next car will get the stage III. "That Plymouth had a Hemi with a Torqueflite." -Driver

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 69CopperCoronet] #585388 01/20/10 03:31 PM 01/20/10 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal Sinitro master
Sinitro master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal	I bought a Stage II box, installed it and it leaked badly. Called up Firm Feel, and they gave me the sunshine treatment.. Told me to send it back in @ my expense, it would take about 10 days to check it and return it back and no compensation for labor to R&R it. They were very arrogant, offered absolutely no customer support.. To say the least I wouldn't recommend them or their products.. Just my $0.01..

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585389 01/20/10 05:56 PM 01/20/10 05:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 936 O OLD318 super stock
OLD318 super stock O Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 936	I used Steer and Gear. Stage 1. it is a HUGE improvement over stock power steering However, If I had it to do all over again I would get stage 2 and that is what I would recommend to someone else... I have no experience with firm feel. My

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: OLD318] #585390 01/21/10 12:18 AM 01/21/10 12:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,017 Ridley Park, Pa. 69MOPE super gas
69MOPE super gas Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,017 Ridley Park, Pa.	I have a stage III and it's great. Nice firm feel at highway speeds and can still turn the wheel with one finger parked. If they had a stage IV I would go with that on my next car!

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 69MOPE] #585391 01/21/10 12:33 PM 01/21/10 12:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,025 Bucks County, PA 5 500Stroker
500Stroker 5 Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,025 Bucks County, PA	Quote: I have a stage III and it's great. Nice firm feel at highway speeds and can still turn the wheel with one finger parked. If they had a stage IV I would go with that on my next car! Same here. Love my stage III. I heard if you ask they do have a Stage IV.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 500Stroker] #585392 01/21/10 04:32 PM 01/21/10 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,883 Northern OH R rapom top fuel
rapom top fuel R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,883 Northern OH	I have the frim feel stage II in my 68 charger and I feel that it is just right.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: rapom] #585393 01/21/10 05:25 PM 01/21/10 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,037 hi sharpie Moparts Linguist
sharpie Moparts Linguist Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,037 hi	Anyone have a Stage III in an A-body? I am going to purchase one next month and need to figure out which I'd like.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: sharpie] #585394 01/21/10 09:08 PM 01/21/10 09:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot Skeptic master
Skeptic master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot	I've got the Stage 2 im my 68 Barracuda and am quite happy with it. I've got a small 13-1/2" steering wheel and 255/50-17s up front. I don't know how much more effort there is between the stage2->3 boxes. I wouldn't have a problem with a 15-20% increase in effort, much more and it you might as well go manual.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Skeptic] #585395 01/22/10 12:49 AM 01/22/10 12:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 569 Pasco, WA 440mag mopar
440mag mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 569 Pasco, WA	I have a stage II in the Charger. If I was buying againg I would go with a stage III.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 440mag] #585396 04/21/10 03:29 AM 04/21/10 03:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	The stage 3 unit is a great match for stiff suspensions, wide tires and a moderately heavy car. My 70 Charger has all of these things, and I am quite happy. ALSO, I have had great service with Firm Feel. Sometimes as customers, we forget that business employees are people too. They have good days and bad. Who knows. Maybe the day a customer gets treated badly, the employee just found out that his trusted girlfriend had just ran off with a group of circus midgets. Hey, it could happen....

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Kern Dog] #585397 04/21/10 10:58 PM 04/21/10 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,402 Wichita,KS B Blakcharger440 top fuel
Blakcharger440 top fuel B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,402 Wichita,KS	I have the Firm Feel Stage III box in my 70 Charger also and I like it alot. It doesnt have that light vague feel like the stock box does.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 69CopperCoronet] #585398 04/22/10 01:42 AM 04/22/10 01:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 3 Sacramento K klc member
klc member K Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 3 Sacramento	I can't tell the difference with the Stage2 (B body) I put in last summer. Feels just like the 40 year old box I replaced. Don't expect to get any help from Dick at FirmFeel. Arrogant is right. He talked me out of ordering a stage3, I'm certain it was because he had one on shelf he couldn't otherwise get rid of. He also talked me into the late model box because "The late pitman arm is still readily available at about half the cost! "�Well, I bought every pittman arm in town and still couldn't find a fit. The box Dick sent me has a taper to the spine that leaves any other arm dangling. I special ordered the fourth arm on the recommendation of another guy at FirmFeel; it didn't fit either and I lost $12.50 in restocking. Almost a month later, Dick sent me an arm that fit. No markings and no response when I asked where it came from. I did get a bill for $95 plus $12 shipping. I hope I don't have to replace the arm ever. Oh, I forgot to mention, while we were chummy on the phone (before I got the box) I pointed out some pricing errors and bad links on the FirmFeel web site. Dick called me up and asked for advice and consultation. An hour later, I had his web site all cleaned up and his new higher prices in place. I never got a thank you, discount of any kind (I paid $329) and no special consideration when I was trying to understand why the steering box was a pain in the ass. I can't recommend FirmFeel. Good Luck.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: klc] #585399 04/22/10 05:24 AM 04/22/10 05:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 636 Graz, Austria DGS mopar
DGS mopar Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 636 Graz, Austria	Steerandgear.com - they also have firm feel boxes and their prices are a bit lower than Firm Feel.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: DGS] #585400 04/22/10 08:09 AM 04/22/10 08:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,647 Houston Texas PAINT IT BLACK Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK Got a CHIP on my shoulder Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,647 Houston Texas	They really push the stage II box for some reason. To the point where I was scared of how firm it might be... Don't listen, get the stage III box if you want a sporty feel. My Stage II feels good, but I'd like it a little firmer.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: klc] #585401 04/23/10 12:44 AM 04/23/10 12:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	"He talked me out of ordering a stage3, I'm certain it was because he had one on shelf he couldn't otherwise get rid of. I can't recommend FirmFeel." Whats the deal there? The same thing happened to me about a year ago when I inquired about a chuck for my Duster. I wanted a stage 3 similar to the one in my Charger, and I got the rigamaroll of " Yeah... We CAN do that, but it could be awhile. I can have a stage 2 ready this afternoon though." I don't have a problem with those guys, but it was a little wierd .

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Kern Dog] #585402 04/23/10 01:23 AM 04/23/10 01:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	Just test drove my stage I today for the first time, I definitely wish I had gone with II or III. There's almost no difference between stock. It was entirely my choice, Stage I sounded like a step beyond the old police firm-feels, I figured two steps up from stock would be fine. Thankfully, this was with the larger wheel, when I bolt my Tuff wheel on, it will hopefully firm up a little bit. Go II or III. By the way, I had no problems with Firm Feel, they treated me fine and had some hard-to-find things I needed in stock, priced fairly. Regarding R&I labor costs, it states plainly on their site that they don't reimburse for this.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585403 04/23/10 02:09 AM 04/23/10 02:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	What does R&I mean? Remove and Install?

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Kern Dog] #585404 04/23/10 02:10 AM 04/23/10 02:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	Yes.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585405 04/23/10 07:48 AM 04/23/10 07:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 550 ne B broncobra mopar
broncobra mopar B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 550 ne	Wow! that's hard to believe they wouldn't stand behind their stuff like that.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Kern Dog] #585406 04/23/10 07:56 AM 04/23/10 07:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 550 ne B broncobra mopar
broncobra mopar B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 550 ne	Dammit! Just when I had it erased from my mind, you had to bring up the circus midgets! My ex screwed everyone in town, including the circus midgets. On a bright note, I'm getting ready to put the Stage 2 in my 67 coronet. No ex involved. ( I do like Twidget the midget ), but she wasn't a part of my ex's vast empire of horndogs.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: broncobra] #585407 04/23/10 08:02 AM 04/23/10 08:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	I haven't seen an example of them not standing behind their product. Has anyone had a problem with them not doing what they said they would do?

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585408 04/23/10 09:43 AM 04/23/10 09:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 637 Maryland USA B beatgoeson mopar
beatgoeson mopar B Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 637 Maryland USA	BTW , I have an E-body with a Firm Feel stage 1 and recently replaced another car's box with a rebuild from Napa. The two feel exactly the same to me. Only difference was $ 325.vs $ 149 and no shipping. I'm sure the 2's and 3's are firmer but I for one never equated "High effort" with control. So I have been perfectly happy with the Nappa unit. Just a thought if your on a budget or thinking about a stage 1.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: beatgoeson] #585409 04/23/10 11:36 AM 04/23/10 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,374 Houston,Tx. L Lee446 pro stock
Lee446 pro stock L Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,374 Houston,Tx.	Man, this is an eye-opener. Like others, I wanted a stage 3 and got talked out of it for a 2. 6 months later, I finished my restoration and put it in. To me, it feels like a STOCK box. I mean, one finger, granny loves it , power steering. I was assured the stage two box would be similar in feel to my buddies 06 GTO, and if it were, I would be happy. I have not bothered to call them, as I am not willing to pull the Hemi and spend a couple of weeks of downtime waiting. I can live with it, but I am not happy. Based on this experience, I would recommend trying Steer and Gear, I will, next time.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Lee446] #585410 04/23/10 11:53 AM 04/23/10 11:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 936 O OLD318 super stock
OLD318 super stock O Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 936	I have a Steer and Gear Stage 1 in my 70 Coronet with power steering. Its a huge improvement over stock. However, If I had it to do over I would easily go stage 2 and maybe even stage 3. Best of luck ... One more thing, having rebuilt the upper control arms with offset bushings, I can dial in an alignment of 2.5 degrees of caster. This along with the stage 1 box makes the car feel 100 times better than stock. However, If I had it to do over again, in addition to the stiffer steering box I wouldnt even fool with the stock upper A Arms. Get a pair of the aftermarket arms which can dial up to 7 degrees of caster. The hotchkiss are really nice but very expensive. Firm Feels arms would be great... Granted my car is just for street driving (no racing) so the more caster, the better the car tracks and feels on the highway. Most newer cars have caster at 4 degrees and higher BTW. Also, go with stiffer than stock torsion bars

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: OLD318] #585411 04/23/10 12:08 PM 04/23/10 12:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	On second drive (literally, the second time I've driven it) the Stage I starts to feel a little stiffer than the stock I remember. I don't need it crazy firm, definitely with the Tuff wheel it should be firm enough for what I'm looking for. Problem comparing with a new car is the fact that the new cars are mostly speed-sensitive, so they stiffen up at speed. I believe our cars are flat in this sense, so what feels firm in a parking lot feels like Granny's car on the expressway. The big improvement seems to be the other Firm Feel parts, the poly bushings, the bigger rod ends, the Bilsteins, etc. All-in-all, I'm pretty happy so far.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 500Stroker] #585412 04/23/10 01:45 PM 04/23/10 01:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon	Quote: Quote: I have a stage III and it's great. Nice firm feel at highway speeds and can still turn the wheel with one finger parked. If they had a stage IV I would go with that on my next car! Same here. Love my stage III. I heard if you ask they do have a Stage IV. They do have a Stage IV but they don't advertise it because it is pretty stiff. Best bet is to call them and talk to Dick Ross. He has been racing Mopars for years and can help with the choice. Lots of people buy the Stage II and then wish they had the Stage III but sometimes people get the Stage III and wish they had gone lighter.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: AndyF] #585413 04/23/10 03:02 PM 04/23/10 03:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,918 Calgary, Alberta Canada a12rag master
a12rag master Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,918 Calgary, Alberta Canada	I got the stage III for my 74 Duster360 and have to admit, I don't notice too much difference than the stock unit. . . .although the response is wayyy better. Effort is about the same ! I had to adjust the valve on top of the box, because it probably got bumped in shipping, and the box wanted to self steer to the left. Easy fix, just loosen the bolts enough to tap the valve up or down, until the wheel is centered. . .no worries. I have spoken many times with Dick and his staff. Always felt like I was treated well. . . .just my two cents worth . . . Oh, on the Duster360, I have the solo racing tbars, urethane bushings for the sway bar, rear sway bar and 235/60/14 tires. LOVE the way it handles !!! . . . Cheers Mark A12rag

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: OLD318] #585414 04/24/10 03:31 PM 04/24/10 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	Quote: ...One more thing, having rebuilt the upper control arms with offset bushings, I can dial in an alignment of 2.5 degrees of caster. This along with the stage 1 box makes the car feel 100 times better than stock... Good point. Caster has a big effect on steering effort and how quickly the wheel centers after turning. If you don't have the same alignment settings as before you changed your steering gear it isn't a fair comparison. Also, the factory steering gears aren't all the same when it comes to steering effort tuning. We all know of the police boxes, but there are lots of applications that used stiffer reaction springs than grandmas Newport. If you replace one of the factory boxes that just happened to have a stiffer setup with a Stage II you might not notice much difference.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: broncobra] #585415 04/24/10 06:01 PM 04/24/10 06:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal Sinitro master
Sinitro master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal	Quote: Wow! that's hard to believe they wouldn't stand behind their stuff like that. I posted to try and help somebody to avoid the same BS experience I went through... Everything is fine until you have an issue, clearly their product was defective and they did absolutely nothing to address this... If I had the time and was located more closely, I would have paid them personal visit.. Just my $0.01..

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585416 04/24/10 06:18 PM 04/24/10 06:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	Quote: Quote: Wow! that's hard to believe they wouldn't stand behind their stuff like that. I posted to try and help somebody to avoid the same BS experience I went through... Everything is fine until you have an issue, clearly their product was defective and they did absolutely nothing to address this... If I had the time and was located more closely, I would have paid them personal visit.. Just my $0.01.. This is what I don't understand... They guarantee their steering boxes for a year, did they refuse to fix it under this policy? When you say they did "nothing", what exactly did you ask for which they refused to do? I'm all for clarifying this, so that nobody gets burned.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585417 04/24/10 06:47 PM 04/24/10 06:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,193 NEW JERSEY AARCONV master
AARCONV master Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,193 NEW JERSEY	anyone know what they add for the stage 1,2,3...compared to stock?...

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: DGS] #585418 04/24/10 08:30 PM 04/24/10 08:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,679 Mansfield,Ohio moparrulzzz top fuel
moparrulzzz top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,679 Mansfield,Ohio	Quote: Steerandgear.com - they also have firm feel boxes and their prices are a bit lower than Firm Feel. I just talked to Steer and Gear about picking up a stage 3 at the Chrysler Classic in Columbus next month. I am glad I called because he told me they are out of cores. Just got done boxing mine up to send to them in time to have it rebuilt and P/U in Columbus!!

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585419 04/25/10 12:11 AM 04/25/10 12:11 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	Quote: ... They guarantee their steering boxes for a year, did they refuse to fix it under this policy? When you say they did "nothing", what exactly did you ask for which they refused to do? I'm all for clarifying this, so that nobody gets burned.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585420 04/25/10 12:42 AM 04/25/10 12:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal Sinitro master
Sinitro master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal	Quote: Quote: Quote: Wow! that's hard to believe they wouldn't stand behind their stuff like that. I posted to try and help somebody to avoid the same BS experience I went through... Everything is fine until you have an issue, clearly their product was defective and they did absolutely nothing to address this... If I had the time and was located more closely, I would have paid them personal visit.. Just my $0.01.. This is what I don't understand... They guarantee their steering boxes for a year, did they refuse to fix it under this policy? When you say they did "nothing", what exactly did you ask for which they refused to do? I'm all for clarifying this, so that nobody gets burned. Check my original post in this thread from January... Their box leaked and they wanted me to pay the freight back, the real burner was their arrogance... The box was bad and they supplied zippo support for freight plus they wanted me to eat the labor, without any substantiation the next box was any better. The car would have set for another 2 weeks while they jacked around.. A customer responsive company would have sent down a UPS call tag, and sent down a replacment overnite.. If I had the time I would have made a separate trip back up there to chuck the box through their front window.. Just my $0.01..

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585421 04/25/10 06:08 AM 04/25/10 06:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Wow! that's hard to believe they wouldn't stand behind their stuff like that. I posted to try and help somebody to avoid the same BS experience I went through... Everything is fine until you have an issue, clearly their product was defective and they did absolutely nothing to address this... If I had the time and was located more closely, I would have paid them personal visit.. Just my $0.01.. This is what I don't understand... They guarantee their steering boxes for a year, did they refuse to fix it under this policy? When you say they did "nothing", what exactly did you ask for which they refused to do? I'm all for clarifying this, so that nobody gets burned. Check my original post in this thread from January... Their box leaked and they wanted me to pay the freight back, the real burner was their arrogance... The box was bad and they supplied zippo support for freight plus they wanted me to eat the labor, without any substantiation the next box was any better. The car would have set for another 2 weeks while they jacked around.. A customer responsive company would have sent down a UPS call tag, and sent down a replacment overnite.. If I had the time I would have made a separate trip back up there to chuck the box through their front window.. Just my $0.01.. I don't think any company would comp you for the labor, the return shipping maybe I can see, but it says right on their site that they don't do this. I wasn't privy to your conversation with them so I don't know how things went down, but it sounds like they followed their published policy. That's all I was getting at. I hope your new box works out, it's frustrating when you put all kinds of new parts on your car and something doesn't work right...

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585422 04/25/10 10:01 AM 04/25/10 10:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal Sinitro master
Sinitro master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Wow! that's hard to believe they wouldn't stand behind their stuff like that. I posted to try and help somebody to avoid the same BS experience I went through... Everything is fine until you have an issue, clearly their product was defective and they did absolutely nothing to address this... If I had the time and was located more closely, I would have paid them personal visit.. Just my $0.01.. This is what I don't understand... They guarantee their steering boxes for a year, did they refuse to fix it under this policy? When you say they did "nothing", what exactly did you ask for which they refused to do? I'm all for clarifying this, so that nobody gets burned. Check my original post in this thread from January... Their box leaked and they wanted me to pay the freight back, the real burner was their arrogance... The box was bad and they supplied zippo support for freight plus they wanted me to eat the labor, without any substantiation the next box was any better. The car would have set for another 2 weeks while they jacked around.. A customer responsive company would have sent down a UPS call tag, and sent down a replacment overnite.. If I had the time I would have made a separate trip back up there to chuck the box through their front window.. Just my $0.01.. I don't think any company would comp you for the labor, the return shipping maybe I can see, but it says right on their site that they don't do this. I wasn't privy to your conversation with them so I don't know how things went down, but it sounds like they followed their published policy. That's all I was getting at. I hope your new box works out, it's frustrating when you put all kinds of new parts on your car and something doesn't work right... There were 3 points under dispute.. 1. Labor for R&R 2. Freight cost to return the defective box 3. Response/priority to receive the replacement box For #2 & #3 they blew me off.. No way I was going to spend additional $ to get another clunker, questionable box. Note that we have built multiple Mopar performance cars and rarely have this type of BS.. The end solution was to get another box from a capable supplier, bolt it in & go. I ended up resealing the Firm Feel box and sold it @ the Fling. Again, the Firm Feel guys were very arrogant and did nothing to replace/fix their defective product. And I hope others do not have put up with their bunk because I won't.. Just my $0.01..

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585423 04/25/10 10:15 AM 04/25/10 10:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon	I work with the guys at Firm Feel a lot and never had any issues. My guess is that there is another side to the story.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: AndyF] #585424 04/25/10 11:23 AM 04/25/10 11:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,647 Houston Texas PAINT IT BLACK Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK Got a CHIP on my shoulder Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,647 Houston Texas	It is straight up BS for them to not have paid for the return shipping for a defective box. I don't care if it is their policy or not. It SHOULDN'T be their policy. A real company would send a call tag. Asking for them to comp the R&R is crossing the line though. That just isn't done. Just isn't the way things work.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585425 04/25/10 05:06 PM 04/25/10 05:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	Quote: There were 3 points under dispute.. 1. Labor for R&R 2. Freight cost to return the defective box 3. Response/priority to receive the replacement box For #2 & #3 they blew me off.. No way I was going to spend additional $ to get another clunker, questionable box. Note that we have built multiple Mopar performance cars and rarely have this type of BS.. The end solution was to get another box from a capable supplier, bolt it in & go. I ended up resealing the Firm Feel box and sold it @ the Fling. Again, the Firm Feel guys were very arrogant and did nothing to replace/fix their defective product. And I hope others do not have put up with their bunk because I won't.. Just my $0.01.. Regardless of whether you agree with their policy or not, I can't understand why you'd be upset at them for following the policy that you were aware of before you purchased the product. You said they were "arrogant", they were nothing but perfectly nice to me...sometimes personalities clash. You said "they did nothing to replace/fix their defective product" and yet, it sounds like they were willing to repair the product under their warranty/guarantee, so they offered to hold up their end of the bargain and it sounds like you refused to let them because it didn't meet with your schedule. I'm not pointing fingers here, I understand the frustration, but it's also not right to accuse them of doing something wrong when it sounds like they were willing to stand behind their product, on the terms that you agreed to when you purchased the product under their published policies. Again, huge hassle, I don't dispute that.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585426 04/25/10 05:32 PM 04/25/10 05:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal Sinitro master
Sinitro master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,439 So Cal	Quote: Quote: There were 3 points under dispute.. 1. Labor for R&R 2. Freight cost to return the defective box 3. Response/priority to receive the replacement box For #2 & #3 they blew me off.. No way I was going to spend additional $ to get another clunker, questionable box. Note that we have built multiple Mopar performance cars and rarely have this type of BS.. The end solution was to get another box from a capable supplier, bolt it in & go. I ended up resealing the Firm Feel box and sold it @ the Fling. Again, the Firm Feel guys were very arrogant and did nothing to replace/fix their defective product. And I hope others do not have put up with their bunk because I won't.. Just my $0.01.. Regardless of whether you agree with their policy or not, I can't understand why you'd be upset at them for following the policy that you were aware of before you purchased the product. You said they were "arrogant", they were nothing but perfectly nice to me...sometimes personalities clash. You said "they did nothing to replace/fix their defective product" and yet, it sounds like they were willing to repair the product under their warranty/guarantee, so they offered to hold up their end of the bargain and it sounds like you refused to let them because it didn't meet with your schedule. I'm not pointing fingers here, I understand the frustration, but it's also not right to accuse them of doing something wrong when it sounds like they were willing to stand behind their product, on the terms that you agreed to when you purchased the product under their published policies. Again, huge hassle, I don't dispute that. The policy of remebursement for labor R&R is not the primary issue. When I ordered the Firm Feel box I paid $125 in overnite freight charges as we were getting the car ready for a major show. The box was installed and was defective as it leaked badly. When I called them about a replacement box, they replied to send my box back @ significant expense to me. Then once it arrived they would check it out and if they found anything wrong, they would repair it and return my box within 2 weeks... Gee thanks.. In my humble opinion, they needed to step up and back up their product to at least some extent.. 1. Send a call tag ASAP 2. Overnite me a replacement box, charge my CC until they receive back the defective box Instead they put all of the burden and expense on me. I deal with consumer issues all day long, and simply expected better response/support from Firm Feel fixing their defective product. If you think that this type of arrogance and lack of support is justified, then proceed with your purchase from Firm Feel. Now that we have explained the details of this situation, this will be my last post for this subject and Firm Feel... Unless of course someone from Firm Feel wants to enter the thread... Just my $0.01..

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585427 04/25/10 06:56 PM 04/25/10 06:56 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,225 El Cerrito Ca. G gregn96cuda pro stock
gregn96cuda pro stock G Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,225 El Cerrito Ca.	"I'm not pointing fingers here, I understand the frustration, but it's not right to accuse them of doing something wrong when it sounds like they were willing to stand behind their product, on the terms that you agreed to when you purchased the product under their published policies." They did do something wrong, they sent him a box that was leaking! They should pay shipping both ways when they send out junk. I would blame their workers not their customers. I have been thinking about buying a new box, I don't think that Dick will get any of my money.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: gregn96cuda] #585428 04/25/10 07:34 PM 04/25/10 07:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,371 Costa Mesa, CA C chache876 pro stock
chache876 pro stock C Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,371 Costa Mesa, CA	After driving around my 72 Demon for a couple years thinking about upgrading to a Firm Feel Box, and then actually realizing I had a Stage 2 installed...I would go for the stage 3.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: Sinitro] #585429 04/25/10 09:15 PM 04/25/10 09:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 117 southern California 1 1970sixpak member
1970sixpak member 1 Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 117 southern California	go with the stage 3. It is not too firm but noticbly firmer than stock. My problem with firm feel is my box leaked and I sent it back and now it still leaks a little. 1970 challenger T/A 4sp. Go mango http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2052639870046004729EwHOJY

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: gregn96cuda] #585430 04/25/10 11:03 PM 04/25/10 11:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest I intragration enthusiast
intragration enthusiast I Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 242 midwest	Quote: "I'm not pointing fingers here, I understand the frustration, but it's not right to accuse them of doing something wrong when it sounds like they were willing to stand behind their product, on the terms that you agreed to when you purchased the product under their published policies." They did do something wrong, they sent him a box that was leaking! They should pay shipping both ways when they send out junk. I would blame their workers not their customers. I have been thinking about buying a new box, I don't think that Dick will get any of my money. I never blamed their customers, I never blamed anyone. Sending out a product that inadvertently has a problem is not equivalent to doing something "wrong". There is a certain percentage of new items that will always fail immediately, despite best efforts. A friend purchased a new heater core that promptly pee'd all over his passenger floor. Had to yank it and get it replaced. No one paid for his inconvenience, transportation, or labor. The item was defective, it was replaced for free, minus his gas TO and FROM the auto parts store. He put it in, and was done. Living a greater distance from the source of your parts doesn't entitle you to special treatment for pickup and delivery. I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of failures from Firm Feel is nearly identical to failures from other vendors. Roll your dice with whoever you'd like. A lot of people are entirely satisfied with their products, I am.

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585431 04/26/10 02:16 AM 04/26/10 02:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I have had good service from almost every vendor in the rebuild of my 70 Charger. I have almost $27,000 in this car and that includes about $3000 in bodywork and paint supplies. Interior parts from Year One, engine parts from Summit racing, Axle parts from Moser. Suspension and steering from Just Suspension and Firm Feel. Headers by TTI. In each case a defective part was immediately met with a reasonable return policy. One time Year One actually paid for return shipping of a fuel line that I ordered in error. Most of the time that I have had poor service is with LOCAL parts guys. CUSTOMER: "Hello, I'd like to return this widget, it didn't fit right." PARTS GUY: " Waddaya mean? Whats wrong with it? Did you drop it or something?" This sort of thing is maddening. YES, there are often stupid customers out there, but instead of first assuming that the customer is an idiot, why not the following: CUSTOMER FRIENDLY PARTS GUY THAT CARES: " Didn't fit? Oh, sorry about that. I'll get another and compare it to this one. If it looks the same, maybe the problem is on your end. Lets take a look.." How hard is that?

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: 1970sixpak] #585432 04/26/10 01:36 PM 04/26/10 01:36 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	Quote: ...My problem with firm feel is my box leaked and I sent it back and now it still leaks a little. Just curious, where is the leak coming from?

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: @#$%&*!] #585433 04/26/10 01:49 PM 04/26/10 01:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,884 Tracy CA R rabid scott "You're Where?"
rabid scott "You're Where?" R Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,884 Tracy CA	Quote: We all know of the police boxes, but there are lots of applications that used stiffer reaction springs than grandmas Newport. Where could one find these "police boxes"? Would a Diplomat cruiser have one, or is it earlier stuff?

Re: Which Firm Feel Box? [Re: intragration] #585434 04/26/10 01:54 PM 04/26/10 01:54 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction @ @#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk!
@#$%&*! New user name, Same old jerk! @ Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1,131 Thigh-Gap Junction	Quote: ...Sending out a product that inadvertently has a problem is not equivalent to doing something "wrong". There is a certain percentage of new items that will always fail immediately, despite best efforts... On that note, I will add that I've seen Dennis assemble and test a number of FF gears and every one is tested on a fixture with a PS pump driven by an electric motor. This is necessary to adjust the position of the valve body as well as check for leaks. Now, how one develops leaks during or after shipping is a topic for debate. I suppose it's possible that the test fixture doesn't generate as much pressure as a pump installed in a car. I also know that the case of a steering gear can easily crack if it's dropped.

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