Give me some possible reason's why....UPDATE!
#504812
10/23/09 06:47 PM
10/23/09 06:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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...when I removed the rocker's and shaft's on my smallblock there is a full 1.5-2.0 turn difference in the the adjuster setting from one side to the other, the driver side the adjuster's are out from full seat against the rocker 1.5-2.0 turn's (these are cup style adjuster's), the pass side is out 3.5 to 4. turns from being seated against the rocker, I have been told to run the adjuster out from the seat 1.5 turns, is the mounting pad a different height from the block surface to the pad where the rocker shaft block's are mounted?, I haven't taken the head's off the block yet so it make's it difficult to measure at this time,,I guess what i an trying to get at is I could use longer pushrod's on the pass side to make up the difference, but that is not the way to fix it correctly,I am suspecting factory machining is at fault for this but I could use some other Ideas. 
Last edited by dartman366; 10/24/09 01:56 PM.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Give me some possible reason's why....
[Re: dartman366]
#504813
10/23/09 07:02 PM
10/23/09 07:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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I ran into this problem when my machinist milled the stands off my 440-1 heads to switch to Jesel Rockers. This setup adds a few more bolts (4) that goes through each intake runner that attaches a large billet rocker stand bar.
Well when I was assembling the engine I ran into this problem as well. 3-4 full turns out form one side to another.
He machinist also decked the heads. I knew it had to be in the decking or in the rocker pads.
It was in the rocker pads. It was only off .060-.075 inch or so..It doesnt take much...Remember this measurement gets multiplied by the rocker ratio...So .075 mistake here means the pushrods see it as about a 8th inch.
I hope this helps.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: Give me some possible reason's why....
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#504815
10/23/09 07:25 PM
10/23/09 07:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Yes it does help, these head's are un cut except for a light cleanup cut back when Ryanj did them, so it would re-afferm my thought's about factory machining of the stand height, as best as I can figure the stand is approx..030-.035 to high. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Give me some possible reason's why....
[Re: dartman366]
#504817
10/24/09 10:41 AM
10/24/09 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Yes it does help, these head's are un cut except for a light cleanup cut back when Ryanj did them, so it would re-afferm my thought's about factory machining of the stand height, as best as I can figure the stand is approx..030-.035 to high.
Bill I had a set of W-2 econo heads that the stands
on one head were .120 shorter.... so I had 4 different
length push rods... left and right heads and intake
and exhaust..... nice machine work from MP
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Re: Give me some possible reason's why....
[Re: RyanJ]
#504818
10/24/09 01:04 PM
10/24/09 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Quote:
Just curious as to why you're noticing this now, when you have been running them for several years? I would have thought you'd have noticed that the first time you ever assembled the engine? It's always good to doublecheck amount of adjuster sticking out of jamnut on all 16 rockers after you lash valves just a s a "safety measure" to make sure everything was done right.... (pushrod can get caught on lip in lifter etc when lashing giving false setting) So quick glance over everything just to verify all adjusters look aprox same before buttoning up is always good idea.
To be honest I'd say for them to be off that much would be somewhat unusual, although imperfect machining is par for the course for MP/Arrow but I rarely see them off that much. .005" yes.... .035" not much.
Inexperience I suppose, over the last couple of year's I have learned more thing's from this site and notice thing's that I never thought of before, if it weren't for the adjuster's breaking and bringing thing's to my attention I probably wouldn't know the difference, now that both side's are off and I can lay them side by side, then that's when I noticed a large difference, and now I am trying to figure out why, and come up with a solution as to why only one side is an issue.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Give me some possible reason's why....
[Re: dartman366]
#504819
10/24/09 01:18 PM
10/24/09 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,722
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Just curious as to why you're noticing this now, when you have been running them for several years? I would have thought you'd have noticed that the first time you ever assembled the engine? It's always good to doublecheck amount of adjuster sticking out of jamnut on all 16 rockers after you lash valves just a s a "safety measure" to make sure everything was done right.... (pushrod can get caught on lip in lifter etc when lashing giving false setting) So quick glance over everything just to verify all adjusters look aprox same before buttoning up is always good idea.
To be honest I'd say for them to be off that much would be somewhat unusual, although imperfect machining is par for the course for MP/Arrow but I rarely see them off that much. .005" yes.... .035" not much.
Inexperience I suppose, over the last couple of year's I have learned more thing's from this site and notice thing's that I never thought of before, if it weren't for the adjuster's breaking and bringing thing's to my attention I probably wouldn't know the difference, now that both side's are off and I can lay them side by side, then that's when I noticed a large difference, and now I am trying to figure out why, and come up with a solution as to why only one side is an issue.
Bill, what kinda rocker gear are you using?? Bolt to the head or use shaft mount like a standard head type( eddie head) would be??
If you are using existing factory attachment points to mount your rocker gear, then it is a factory machining issue. That should have been noted when it was initially mocked up, the pattern at the valvestem must have rolled out( looked) quite different.
If the rocker gear is like mine( Jesel) where you have to mill the head down( mine was around 250-270 thou) to achieve perfect geometry, its possible somebody could have got one side perfect, measured exactly how far they had cut the head, then just cut the other side the same and assumed it would be just like the first side, and not mocked it up.
If would have to be one or the other of the above two things, depending on what you have, in either case a machining issue.
Last edited by B3422W5; 10/24/09 01:33 PM.
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Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
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Re: Give me some possible reason's why....UPDATE!
[Re: B3422W5]
#504820
10/24/09 01:55 PM
10/24/09 01:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just curious as to why you're noticing this now, when you have been running them for several years? I would have thought you'd have noticed that the first time you ever assembled the engine? It's always good to doublecheck amount of adjuster sticking out of jamnut on all 16 rockers after you lash valves just a s a "safety measure" to make sure everything was done right.... (pushrod can get caught on lip in lifter etc when lashing giving false setting) So quick glance over everything just to verify all adjusters look aprox same before buttoning up is always good idea.
To be honest I'd say for them to be off that much would be somewhat unusual, although imperfect machining is par for the course for MP/Arrow but I rarely see them off that much. .005" yes.... .035" not much.
Inexperience I suppose, over the last couple of year's I have learned more thing's from this site and notice thing's that I never thought of before, if it weren't for the adjuster's breaking and bringing thing's to my attention I probably wouldn't know the difference, now that both side's are off and I can lay them side by side, then that's when I noticed a large difference, and now I am trying to figure out why, and come up with a solution as to why only one side is an issue.
Bill, what kinda rocker gear are you using?? Bolt to the head or use shaft mount like a standard head type( eddie head) would be??
If you are using existing factory attachment points to mount your rocker gear, then it is a factory machining issue. That should have been noted when it was initially mocked up, the pattern at the valvestem must have rolled out( looked) quite different.
If the rocker gear is like mine( Jesel) where you have to mill the head down( mine was around 250-270 thou) to achieve perfect geometry, its possible somebody could have got one side perfect, measured exactly how far they had cut the head, then just cut the other side the same and assumed it would be just like the first side, and not mocked it up.
If would have to be one or the other of the above two things, depending on what you have, in either case a machining issue.
It takes the w2/w5 rocker gear that uses the pad to mount to,,,But I think I just found the problem,,I depth miked from the pad to a small area of the block deck surface and found a .045 descrepancy from one side to the other (the pass side is taller), so it look's to me that the pad's need milled down to match the other, I am also going to have Terry (my machinist) help me double check the rocker alignment and make sure we don't have to make another adjustment with that, it looked good to me when I did it the first time but I have proven to all of you that I still have thing's to learn. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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