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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: camastomcat]
#497574
10/15/09 09:46 AM
10/15/09 09:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
What can, or is being done to prevent this? I hear people are using counters, traction control, lasers? What do racers do to protect themselves or to levcel the playing field? I am just starting to be frustrated with the big money reaces, and would like to hear some opinions. Especially you geys on the East coast. 
There is not much that can be done,it goes on in every sport.The attitude"it ain't cheating,till you get caught" is the norm.And with some of the sophisticated techonology it is hard to find.The tech inspectors have a difficult time finding and proving anything.So until there is obvious infractions that can be seen and proven some will have an advantage.In the words of the great"Smokey Yunick"Streatching the rules to the maximum is not cheating" Smokey was also the guy that made the template for NASCAR to fit his altered body lines of his Chevelle,embarrassing all of NASCAR officials.Then there was the mopar guys,oh never mind.  
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: B G Racing]
#497575
10/15/09 10:00 AM
10/15/09 10:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,340
Pennsylvania
proshiftcharger
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,340
Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Quote:
What can, or is being done to prevent this? I hear people are using counters, traction control, lasers? What do racers do to protect themselves or to levcel the playing field? I am just starting to be frustrated with the big money reaces, and would like to hear some opinions. Especially you geys on the East coast.
And with some of the sophisticated techonology it is hard to find.The tech inspectors have a difficult time finding and proving anything.Quote:
Exactly, I just had this discusion with a moparts member this week, It wasnt about cheating but about tech inspecting for SFI approved components.
Back to what to do about it....call them out, tell your tech officials but before you do make sure youre 100% correct in your accusations and be ready to back it up...
because if youre wrong then.... 
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: proshiftcharger]
#497576
10/15/09 10:11 AM
10/15/09 10:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,596
BX, CT, FL.
B1KILLER
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,596
BX, CT, FL.
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their cheaters in all sports, look @ athletes with the use of steriods, like it was said b4, it ain't cheating unless you get caught. That has been proven threw out history, and it will never change, some people need that extra edge. 
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: camastomcat]
#497579
10/15/09 10:44 AM
10/15/09 10:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
I have a real hard time accepting that philosophy. Ceating is still ceating. Like holding cards in a poker game, it's cheating, and to join them would make you a ceater too. I'm not infering that you are, but accepting that thought process, makes it acceptable. They need to catch them or at least look for it. That's their job!!!! (NHRA)& (IHRA) 
Welcome to the real world,look at the olympic runner that was a female or male? Is developing a perfect mouse trap cheating?Alot of what someone does to gain advantages is unknown to others and there are no rules that apply,similar to crime,if there is no law is it a crime.If society deems it a crime then they inact a law. If you feel some one is cheating NHRA and AHRA has a process called"protest",you make your claim,put up the bucks and let the chips fall where they may.Tech officials have a tough enough time making sure the cars pass tech,race with in the rules established and running the programs let alone try and find all the hidden tricks of trade.My wife still won't share her secret ingredients of her candy.So unless it is obivious or blaten,don't expect much help from race techs,some of the racers and builders are pretty savy.Use the process of protest,if you feel someone is cheating.To charaterize everyone who works hard to develope their combs to be successfull a cheater is not fair. 
Last edited by B G Racing; 10/15/09 10:52 AM.
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: B G Racing]
#497580
10/15/09 11:17 AM
10/15/09 11:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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"I have a real hard time accepting that philosophy. Ceating is still ceating. Like holding cards in a poker game, it's cheating, and to join them would make you a ceater too. I'm not infering that you are, but accepting that thought process, makes it acceptable. They need to catch them or at least look for it. That's their job!!!! (NHRA)& (IHRA)"
I think most of us here more than likely agree with you in principle. But, like BG said, we live in the real world.
The problem I have with bracket racing anymore is that there is no "fun" factor in it anymore. It's like going to work, full of yuppies who feel they have to win at all costs.
I have been moderately successful over the past forty years or so, and I have long since given up the thought that I am ever going to make money at this. So, I prepare well, and do the best job I can do (I'm still pretty competitive), but I'm not ready to burn someone down or punch someone out in order to win. But, I see it all the time, especially at these big bracket races. No one talks to each other, everyone walks around with their "game face" spoiling for a fight.
One of the BG team cars, Don Martek, took out a very serious bracket heavy hitter several weeks ago, went over to shake hands after word and the guy wouldn't talk to him. What's up with that?
Have fun. Over the long run, the memories and the fun are the only lasting thing you'll ever get out of this game.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: camastomcat]
#497583
10/15/09 11:32 AM
10/15/09 11:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,596
BX, CT, FL.
B1KILLER
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,596
BX, CT, FL.
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I agree with you cheating is cheating, I don't accept it, but it is what it is. To many people do it and don't get caught, thats life. And as long as they don't get caught, that mite even start to think its right, but until they get caught, they will con't their ways. Its reality.
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: Steve1118]
#497584
10/15/09 11:40 AM
10/15/09 11:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
"I have a real hard time accepting that philosophy. Ceating is still ceating. Like holding cards in a poker game, it's cheating, and to join them would make you a ceater too. I'm not infering that you are, but accepting that thought process, makes it acceptable. They need to catch them or at least look for it. That's their job!!!! (NHRA)& (IHRA)"
I think most of us here more than likely agree with you in principle. But, like BG said, we live in the real world.
The problem I have with bracket racing anymore is that there is no "fun" factor in it anymore. It's like going to work, full of yuppies who feel they have to win at all costs.
I have been moderately successful over the past forty years or so, and I have long since given up the thought that I am ever going to make money at this. So, I prepare well, and do the best job I can do (I'm still pretty competitive), but I'm not ready to burn someone down or punch someone out in order to win. But, I see it all the time, especially at these big bracket races. No one talks to each other, everyone walks around with their "game face" spoiling for a fight.
One of the BG team cars, Don Martek, took out a very serious bracket heavy hitter several weeks ago, went over to shake hands after word and the guy wouldn't talk to him. What's up with that?
Have fun. Over the long run, the memories and the fun are the only lasting thing you'll ever get out of this game.
I agree with Steve.The last 3 years we elected to race specific events that included nostalgia racing rather than chase any of the local points races.We have more fun at Mopar Nats,Chrysler Classics and Beaver Springs.But we still love going to a bracket race and letting them know we can still kick some butt.With BGR racers like Donny,Chaz,Britt,Pap,Earl,Casinis,Darryal,Ronnie,Kyle,Walt Sr,Walt Jr,the Smiths and many more it's great toget together at the events and leave some marks.   
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: Steve1118]
#497585
10/15/09 11:42 AM
10/15/09 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982
western pennsylvania
b1dartsport
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982
western pennsylvania
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Quote:
"I have a real hard time accepting that philosophy. Ceating is still ceating. Like holding cards in a poker game, it's cheating, and to join them would make you a ceater too. I'm not infering that you are, but accepting that thought process, makes it acceptable. They need to catch them or at least look for it. That's their job!!!! (NHRA)& (IHRA)"
I think most of us here more than likely agree with you in principle. But, like BG said, we live in the real world.
The problem I have with bracket racing anymore is that there is no "fun" factor in it anymore. It's like going to work, full of yuppies who feel they have to win at all costs.
I have been moderately successful over the past forty years or so, and I have long since given up the thought that I am ever going to make money at this. So, I prepare well, and do the best job I can do (I'm still pretty competitive), but I'm not ready to burn someone down or punch someone out in order to win. But, I see it all the time, especially at these big bracket races. No one talks to each other, everyone walks around with their "game face" spoiling for a fight.
One of the BG team cars, Don Martek, took out a very serious bracket heavy hitter several weeks ago, went over to shake hands after word and the guy wouldn't talk to him. What's up with that?
Have fun. Over the long run, the memories and the fun are the only lasting thing you'll ever get out of this game.
Work is Work, fun is fun. If bracket racing gets so serious that it is not a way to blow off steam anymore,people need to get a new hobby. Just don't rain on other peoples parade. 
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: Steve1118]
#497587
10/15/09 11:46 AM
10/15/09 11:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,979
new jersey usa
11secdart
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,979
new jersey usa
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I agree that a lot of the fun factor has disappeared a lot of it has to do with the NHRA Division always changing the classes. When I started racing there were 4 classes S/P, Pro, Heavy and Street now there are three S/P. Pro and Street in Division One and the ET breaks are always changing. Pro used to be its own Class 11.00 to 11.99 now its the old Heavy 9.00 to 17.99 no electronics.Street is now 11.50 to 19.99. IMO 9.00 cars don`t belong in Pro but the track operators seemed to think there were alot of 9 second cars sitting because they didn`t want to put delay boxes in. Why can`t they just leave the classes alone? I ran Pro/ Heavy for years but when they started allowing 9 second cars in IMO it wasn`t fun anymore with my mid 10 second car. Last year I slowed my car down, put DOT tires on the front, Hoosier QTPs on the rear and now run 11.50s in Street Eliminator and am having fun racing again and I`ve qualified for the Bracket Finals the last two years, being one of the fastest cars in the Class makes it fun again also. At my local track there is a lot of self policing and we all know most everyone. The racers themselves keep a pretty good eye on each other. One of the tech guys is also a regular racer and has a good idea what to look for. A longtime racer in the Eastern Pa area was caught with a delay box racing in Pro ( no electronics) I heard he got a ban as he should have but I don`t know what it was. I also agree that some guys are way to serious and take the fun away. There will always be people trying to cheat and you can`t rely on the tracks or association to police it fully. The track operators are having a hard enough time attracting cars in some cases let alone chasing cars away. If you suspect cheating speak up to the track operator or tech guys.
68 Dart 410 / 904
92 D150 original owner
21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4
23 Audi Q5
16 Honda HRV
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: cgall]
#497590
10/15/09 12:06 PM
10/15/09 12:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
MegaDart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,314
The Swamp
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IIRC, traction control devices are illegal in bracket racing. At least anything with real time display. That said, programmable digital ignitions are perfectly legal, stupid NHRA...
You would have to be able to decipher code to catch some of todays cheaters, and first you'd have to find it!
And before some idiot comes on here and says it's simple just do it like we did back in the 70's and take all the electronics out. Let me say I LOVE electronics racing. It's a numbers game and I love numbers. Most of the guys around here ain't much smarter then me, lol, so not to worried about them cheatin'. Now the big money races, the Winter Series, etc. that is another story.
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#497591
10/15/09 12:13 PM
10/15/09 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
It is cheating when the rules define what they are doing as cheating, traction control is not allowed in several proffesional classes but not in bracker racing the last time I check the rulle book. I wasn't loooking at traction control per se but I don't think it is prohibited in the bracket classes. As far as the use of lasers fill us in on that one please
I think the lasers being refered to is the optical sensors that can pick up the top, or any bulb actually, and trigger the delay box to launch the car.
With todays tech, I can sit in the stands and launch a car, using a remote start unit. If I toss in an optical sensor, it can be pointed at the tree, then when the tree comes down, it reads it, activates the delay box, and "poof" the car leaves. Same deal as the post awhile back about the "camera" being pointed at the tree; then once someone stepped in front of the camera (blocking the tree) the car didn't leave.
Nobody wanted to listen 20 yrs ago when the boxes started going into the cars. Now the doors are open and the horses are out of the barn - good luck catching them. Solution - 2 classes. (1) NO electronics (2) Everything goes - boxes, crosstalks, throttle stops, traction controls optical sensors, GPS, - whatever it takes for you to get down the track. Let your wallet race the races.
R.I.P. Bracket Racing  Hello Electronics 1320 
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: Bracket race cheaters-NHRA and IHRA
[Re: hemiparts]
#497592
10/15/09 12:16 PM
10/15/09 12:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,894
Florida
Locomotion
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,894
Florida
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Quote:
Define cheating, IMO if I hold some numbers back then run you right up to the fender and hold you there to either force you to break out or dump you @the finish line. Thats cheating
"Bagging" is not cheating, it's simply playing games. It doesn't "force" you to do anything. The number one rule in handicap racing is to RUN YOUR OWN RACE. You are not really racing the other guy. You are racing against the clock. The one who does a better job wins.
Personally I don't care for sandbagging because I don't drive the finish line as well as some other people. I sometimes do when I'm totally lost on what to dial. That can happen when your next run is the next day and a weather front has moved through.
Cheating, as others have described, is using electronic driving aids that aren't allowed by the rules.
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