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Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490346
10/08/09 12:27 PM
10/08/09 12:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
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Canada BC
Steve Barton Offline
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Canada BC
I am looking for 650 0n eng only + the nos, I still want to run this on the street. that is why I went with the 10.7. Basicaly I want to run in the low 10s on eng and pos dip into the 9s with nos. I have a 71 scamp wieghs 3000 with me in it.
I was running low to mid 11s with my 360 eng no nos. Eng had 410 hp at the rear wheels and 409 trq. ?


Homepage Pic's http://www.bluemelon.com/dodgeman/ Steve. New best 1.40 60' 9.99 Et 132.8 mph
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Steve Barton] #490347
10/08/09 12:36 PM
10/08/09 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,486
SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Quote:

I am looking for 650 0n eng only + the nos, I still want to run this on the street. that is why I went with the 10.7. Basicaly I want to run in the low 10s on eng and pos dip into the 9s with nos. I have a 71 scamp wieghs 3000 with me in it.
I was running low to mid 11s with my 360 eng no nos. Eng had 410 hp at the rear wheels and 409 trq. ?




With the Indy heads you can make 650 on pump gas. How streetable it'll be not sure. With a roller cam and some good parts I think 650 is very possible.
Not with E heads though....


Brian Hafliger
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490348
10/08/09 01:18 PM
10/08/09 01:18 PM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Maybe I missed it... can you give any details on the different carbs you tested?

Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: BradH] #490349
10/08/09 02:44 PM
10/08/09 02:44 PM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Quote:

Maybe I missed it... can you give any details on the different carbs you tested?




Customers QF 950 annular carb vs. my OOTB 1000HP.

Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490350
10/08/09 03:09 PM
10/08/09 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
with the 6K RPM ceiling imposed by the owner, is there much advantage to a solid cam over a fast rate hydraulic? in some of andyF's articles on his old 470, IIRC, a comp juice cam kept up with a solid pretty good until ~6000 RPM, and that's where the juice cam peaked, while the solid kept going up.

especially if it is destined for a street car, could a hydraulic roller cam have made the same amount of power with less questions of durability given the state of modern oils?

just a thought....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: patrick] #490351
10/08/09 07:16 PM
10/08/09 07:16 PM
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Posts: 31,060
Oregon
A
AndyF Online content
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Oregon
That is a really tough question. I've had good luck with some hyd cam profiles where we could spin them really hard without any problem but then again, I've seen lots of issues where the hyd cam just won't work.

If the rules require a hyd cam then I think that an engine builder can always find a lobe profile/pushrod/rocker arm/spring combo that will work. I know that the some of the Mustang classes require hyd roller cams and those guys twist the snot of the engines. But a "bolt on Joe" might have only a 25% chance of grabbing a cam out of the catalog that will actually work very well.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with this 427 small block that I'm working on. The redline is going to be down around 6500 rpm so in theory a hyd roller should work just fine. But I really don't want to spend the money to find out that I need to change the profile. Changing cams on a stock type small block isn't nearly as easy as it is on a big block with a Jesel belt drive!

Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: patrick] #490352
10/08/09 07:30 PM
10/08/09 07:30 PM
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Posts: 5,486
SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Quote:

with the 6K RPM ceiling imposed by the owner, is there much advantage to a solid cam over a fast rate hydraulic? in some of andyF's articles on his old 470, IIRC, a comp juice cam kept up with a solid pretty good until ~6000 RPM, and that's where the juice cam peaked, while the solid kept going up.

especially if it is destined for a street car, could a hydraulic roller cam have made the same amount of power with less questions of durability given the state of modern oils?

just a thought....




After the first cam went flat, the customer and I talked about seveal different ways to go...however he already had the Schubeck lifters and after close inspection with a mag.glass we decided to go back to a FT cam.
I could have gotten Comp to build a set of hyd. roller lifters for the 48° block, but after discussing it with Billy Godbold and Chris plus my own experience I felt that with the 1.65 ratio rockers that the best way to go was the FT cam.

Now I might have been wrong about that, but I've seen hyd rollers give up some steam near 6000rpm, and I didn't want to go through that...mostly because the customer had already spent so much and time was wearing down on this project.

We did discuss going solid roller, with my lifters I felt it would last quite a while, but in the end cost was a bit high and I think the customer was tired of the hassle and $$$ spent.
If he hadn't had the Schubeck's I think we would have went with a streetable roller grind which is what I really wanted to do. I wanted 650HP from the start of this project, but limited my dreams to 620's with the FT cam.
I think we would have been there with the first cam.

I will have pics up this weekend I hope, maybe sooner. Not anything much different than what I've posted before, but at least they are fun to look at...LOL!!


Brian Hafliger
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: AndyF] #490353
10/09/09 09:05 AM
10/09/09 09:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
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Grand Haven, MI
Quote:

That is a really tough question. I've had good luck with some hyd cam profiles where we could spin them really hard without any problem but then again, I've seen lots of issues where the hyd cam just won't work.

If the rules require a hyd cam then I think that an engine builder can always find a lobe profile/pushrod/rocker arm/spring combo that will work. I know that the some of the Mustang classes require hyd roller cams and those guys twist the snot of the engines. But a "bolt on Joe" might have only a 25% chance of grabbing a cam out of the catalog that will actually work very well.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with this 427 small block that I'm working on. The redline is going to be down around 6500 rpm so in theory a hyd roller should work just fine. But I really don't want to spend the money to find out that I need to change the profile. Changing cams on a stock type small block isn't nearly as easy as it is on a big block with a Jesel belt drive!




might want to talk to Jesse Lackman, he has a lot of experience with magnum rollers....reviewing this build of his:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post5071764

sounds like he had no problems up to 6200 RPM with the stock lifters.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: patrick] #490354
10/12/09 12:50 AM
10/12/09 12:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,486
SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Here are some pics of this engine...

5539708-8.jpg (326 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490355
10/12/09 12:51 AM
10/12/09 12:51 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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48° Siamesed bore R3 block

5539711-3.jpg (309 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490356
10/12/09 12:52 AM
10/12/09 12:52 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Modified oil pump

5539713-2.jpg (270 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490357
10/12/09 12:54 AM
10/12/09 12:54 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Ross -16cc dish, 4.200

5539715-1.jpg (269 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490358
10/12/09 12:54 AM
10/12/09 12:54 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Head and intake on the bench

5539717-5.jpg (311 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490359
10/12/09 12:55 AM
10/12/09 12:55 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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victor intake and head on bench

5539719-7.jpg (255 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490360
10/12/09 12:55 AM
10/12/09 12:55 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Pushrods going through the head

5539720-8.jpg (243 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490361
10/12/09 12:56 AM
10/12/09 12:56 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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Close!

5539721-10.jpg (239 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490362
10/12/09 12:56 AM
10/12/09 12:56 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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5539722-12.jpg (326 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490363
10/12/09 12:57 AM
10/12/09 12:57 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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QF 950 annular carb

5539725-17.jpg (265 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490364
10/12/09 12:59 AM
10/12/09 12:59 AM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline OP
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On the pump...

5539728-24.jpg (270 downloads)
Re: 600+ HP 440 SB Mopar on pump gas..... [Re: Brian Hafliger] #490365
10/12/09 01:03 AM
10/12/09 01:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11 Offline
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Quote:

Close!




I've often wondered, the indy heads don't clear pushrods on a 59 degree solid roller or a 59 degree hydraulic roller and apparently they are really tight on a 48 degree flat tappet too?? What exactly do they have those pushrod areas clearanced for???

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