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Question on turning a crank... #490052
10/06/09 08:22 PM
10/06/09 08:22 PM
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Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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I am taking my crank(forged) in tomorrow to be magged and turned. I know it will need turned as the rod journals (not the mains) have rust on them.
What is the most I should let them machine?
There is no damage from a spun bearing or anything like that so I am guessing it should be no more than .010, but ya never know.
I also read somewhere to have them champher the oil holes, shall I tell them to do this as well?
Sorry if this is trivial but I am pulling the trigger on my 1st build. (440)

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490053
10/06/09 08:32 PM
10/06/09 08:32 PM
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Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Go as little as it will clean at. .030 won't hurt it and bearings are still available at that size. Mains can be cut to 383/400 size so go figure.

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: MoparforLife] #490054
10/06/09 08:36 PM
10/06/09 08:36 PM
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Eagle, Idaho
Neil Online content
The Doctor is in.
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Most shops chamfer the oil holes without asking, but it wouldn't hurt to bring it up.

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490055
10/06/09 08:53 PM
10/06/09 08:53 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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I'd install your rod/main bearings & mike them & give that dimention to the crank grinder so he he can grind the exact clearances that you are after.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490056
10/06/09 08:55 PM
10/06/09 08:55 PM
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Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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Thnx for the tips guys. I will tell them no more than what is needed to clean them up and call me if it needs more than .030(which I doubt) and I will tell them to chamfer the oil holes!!..THNX!!
Chuck

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: RapidRobert] #490057
10/07/09 08:04 AM
10/07/09 08:04 AM
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Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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Quote:

I'd install your rod/main bearings & mike them & give that dimention to the crank grinder so he he can grind the exact clearances that you are after.




Do you mean the old bearings? They are long gone.
And if you are referring to the new bearings, how do I determine which to get as I have no idea on how much needs to be machined?
This is where I want to start pulling my hair out!!

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490058
10/07/09 08:28 AM
10/07/09 08:28 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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That's right on the bearings wait till they measure it. They don't always champer holes and polish so make sure they are going to do it! What is the intended use??

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: Dodgem] #490059
10/07/09 09:15 AM
10/07/09 09:15 AM
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Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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Building a 450-500 HP 440. Street use only. doubt it will see 6500 RPM's.
I can post more specifics later if needed. On my way to work.
The crank is still in the garage till I get more specifics..

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490060
10/07/09 09:52 AM
10/07/09 09:52 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

And if you are referring to the new bearings, how do I determine which to get as I have no idea on how much needs to be machined?
This is where I want to start pulling my hair out!!


You would want to take in the block/rods also & they will 1st mike the crank rod/main journals & see what undersize bearings are needed & you & him decide what TYPE of bearings you need for your app (full groove/half groove premium or cheap etc) then he will order them & mockup the new main bearings in the block & measure the ID so the crank dia can be ground the exact dia to get your desired clearance on the mains. Same with the rods, they will in most cases need to be resized on the big end then mocked up with the proper undersize bearings depending on how much the rod journals need to be ground & the ID measured same as the mains then the rod journals ground accordingly. No need to pull your hair out (yet ),we got you covered.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: RapidRobert] #490061
10/07/09 09:00 PM
10/07/09 09:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

And if you are referring to the new bearings, how do I determine which to get as I have no idea on how much needs to be machined?
This is where I want to start pulling my hair out!!


You would want to take in the block/rods also & they will 1st mike the crank rod/main journals & see what undersize bearings are needed & you & him decide what TYPE of bearings you need for your app (full groove/half groove premium or cheap etc) then he will order them & mockup the new main bearings in the block & measure the ID so the crank dia can be ground the exact dia to get your desired clearance on the mains. Same with the rods, they will in most cases need to be resized on the big end then mocked up with the proper undersize bearings depending on how much the rod journals need to be ground & the ID measured same as the mains then the rod journals ground accordingly. No need to pull your hair out (yet ),we got you covered.




What type bearing would I need? What dictates
a full groove over a 1/2 groove. RPM, how tight clearances being ran?
How much of a oil clearance do I want to run on the mains/Rod journals? Does determining if I want to run a high volume oil pump come into play at this stage? Do I need a HV oil pump??
Again this is a learning experince for me, I have lots of ??????
Chuck

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490062
10/07/09 09:16 PM
10/07/09 09:16 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Again this is a learning experince for me, I have lots of ??????


This is a free site, fire away. Std vol pump. More info on your intended use. I'm going w .002 rods/mains & maybe a hair less but its going to be a daily driver with only a little bit of stoplight action depending on how much attitude other drivers give me about the appearance of my beat up 65 Dart


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Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: RapidRobert] #490063
10/07/09 09:24 PM
10/07/09 09:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Again this is a learning experince for me, I have lots of ??????


This is a free site, fire away. Std vol pump. More info on your intended use. I'm going w .002 rods/mains & maybe a hair less but its going to be a daily driver with only a little bit of stoplight action depending on how much attitude other drivers give me about the appearance of my beat up 65 Dart




450-500 HP weekend warrior. No drag strip, I doubt it will see 6500 RPM's. Want to build a respectable motor and not have to worry about a 5.0 Rustang or Honda cleaning my clock!!
I have a game plan on the build itself which I will post in a day or two when I have more time to sit at the puter and answer and ask questions.
If ya need anymore info on the use ask away..
Thnx Chuck

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490064
10/08/09 07:59 AM
10/08/09 07:59 AM
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Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Niles , Ohio
Had mine turned they polished it chamfered the holes and balanced the assembley.I did change pistons also.They also blueprinted and clearanced mine.Its a street motor but built for race.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: therocks] #490065
10/08/09 11:21 AM
10/08/09 11:21 AM
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Upper Midwest
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We like to stay at .0015 and no more than .002 on boththe rods and mains in the engines for street ans strip. No problems and have always used a HV pump.

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490066
10/08/09 12:30 PM
10/08/09 12:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl Offline
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Omaha, Nebraska
Quote:

I know it will need turned as the rod journals (not the mains) have rust on them.





How rusty are they?? If its just surface rust I would think it could be cleaned up with with minimal turning or even a good polishing. I've seen it done with emery cloth, then crocus cloth. If its a heavy powdery rust, then yeah, minimal turning; .010 or less should work. If its pitted flaky rust, Just MHO

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: RapidRobert] #490067
10/09/09 07:32 AM
10/09/09 07:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

And if you are referring to the new bearings, how do I determine which to get as I have no idea on how much needs to be machined?
This is where I want to start pulling my hair out!!


You would want to take in the block/rods also & they will 1st mike the crank rod/main journals & see what undersize bearings are needed & you & him decide what TYPE of bearings you need for your app (full groove/half groove premium or cheap etc) then he will order them & mockup the new main bearings in the block & measure the ID so the crank dia can be ground the exact dia to get your desired clearance on the mains. Same with the rods, they will in most cases need to be resized on the big end then mocked up with the proper undersize bearings depending on how much the rod journals need to be ground & the ID measured same as the mains then the rod journals ground accordingly. No need to pull your hair out (yet ),we got you covered.




When they mike the mains I am assuming they will need the bolts and torque to spec. Shall I take my old set or the new? (bolts)

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: Scott Carl] #490068
10/09/09 07:33 AM
10/09/09 07:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,679
Mansfield,Ohio
moparrulzzz Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

I know it will need turned as the rod journals (not the mains) have rust on them.





How rusty are they?? If its just surface rust I would think it could be cleaned up with with minimal turning or even a good polishing. I've seen it done with emery cloth, then crocus cloth. If its a heavy powdery rust, then yeah, minimal turning; .010 or less should work. If its pitted flaky rust, Just MHO



Kind of a heavy rust not pitted and flaking

Re: Question on turning a crank... [Re: moparrulzzz] #490069
10/09/09 10:02 AM
10/09/09 10:02 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

When they mike the mains I am assuming they will need the bolts and torque to spec. Shall I take my old set or the new? (bolts)


Generally main cap bolts are not replaced but if so take the new ones. When replacing the rod bolts (a good idea) the rod big end does need to be resized because unlike the mains new rod bolts shift the rod caps just slightly but enough that they are off center. And very often the rod big end needs to be resized anynow. There are some very reasonable options for new rods now which might be a better deal than the labor/parts to have your 40 year old fatigued ones reworked.


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