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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
#48779
12/12/07 12:47 AM
12/12/07 12:47 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,305
Hobart,Indiana
MoparPitBull
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,305
Hobart,Indiana
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Quote:
Mr. Barton has a "BAD REP" has he?  
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: MoparPitBull]
#48780
12/12/07 01:18 AM
12/12/07 01:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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Story has it that Barton will be doing the 528s and somebody else will be doing the 426s and the 472s.
I think this is a good thing!!
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: sasquatch]
#48783
12/12/07 10:38 AM
12/12/07 10:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
The word I heard was that Gary Stanton would be doing the 426 and 472s but that was not confirmed or anything.Todd 
He can't even build a competitive sprint car motor anymore, what makes him think he can build a Hemi? Oh wait a minute.....  it's BECAUSE he can't build competitive sprint motors anymore that he now HAS to build Hemis for something to do.... now I got it.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#48785
12/12/07 02:06 PM
12/12/07 02:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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I got a Mopar 528 Crate Hemi built by Barton several years ago! It was a warranty rebuild though.
My engine has been fine. I think Barton will do this right.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#48786
12/12/07 02:49 PM
12/12/07 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,035
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,035
Oregon
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I'm not sure who the guy is in the upper Midwest is but I did get an order the other day to send a few Hemi motor dollies to Roush.
I haven't gotten any orders yet from Barton but I'm not sure I'd sell him anything anyway. Last time I did business with him he wasn't really very prompt about paying his bill.
Last edited by AndyF; 12/12/07 02:51 PM.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: sasquatch]
#48788
12/12/07 03:12 PM
12/12/07 03:12 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Crates are for Oranges and other fruits, NOT for engines. I say toss the crate! 
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
#48789
12/12/07 06:58 PM
12/12/07 06:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
HEMIDARTS
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
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Quote:
Crates are for Oranges and other fruits, NOT for engines. I say toss the crate!
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: Blusmbl]
#48791
12/12/07 08:28 PM
12/12/07 08:28 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
That would be a real hoot though to go to Ford master to build Chrysler hemi's.  
We do most of the machining for Rehr-Morrison, too.
who is "we" ???
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
#48793
12/12/07 09:01 PM
12/12/07 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
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Quote:
who is "we" ???
Roush.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: Blusmbl]
#48794
12/12/07 09:07 PM
12/12/07 09:07 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
who is "we" ???
Roush.
Well, that answered THAT!!! 
Saw the Cat in The Hat, this last w/e at the PRI show.. I went and told him how great I was, he already knew that. 
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: 68hemiss]
#48796
12/12/07 11:54 PM
12/12/07 11:54 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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How much faith can you REALLY put in Chrysler Direct Connection parts? Especially an assembled engine! I've heard too many horror stories about the crap they do and don't do in the past!  I hope a lot of the problems have been rectified. I hear Cummins QC was real bad,so it's good news they ended that partnership!  RandyB 
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: copchaser]
#48797
12/13/07 12:02 PM
12/13/07 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
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Quote:
So tell us Zippy is the mysterious northern, midwestern engine builder Chuck Lofgren? He knows HEMI's.
Well, the outfit has been posted already, somewhere or another, a person just has to find it Though MP does like hearing from Chuck (he's just a good guy to talk to), no it isn't him.
Sorry for being vague, but the whole relationship is in the development stages and the northern facility has not been approved for production yet. I do know MP is impressed with them, likes that company quite a bit and really wants to work with them in the future for sure, whoever they are!
All the new crate engine builders are getting vastly improved parts to work with: blocks and heads were all retooled in 2007, which was neither easy nor cheap. That combined with vastly more performance oriented race engine builders is going to help the crate motors a ton.
Myself, I prefer to put my own stuff together but not everyone enjoys such things.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#48798
12/13/07 01:07 PM
12/13/07 01:07 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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i'm guessing it's chuck at best machine.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
#48799
12/13/07 02:15 PM
12/13/07 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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maybe mike at muscle motors?
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: AndyF]
#48806
12/13/07 04:48 PM
12/13/07 04:48 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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the world block i got a couple weeks ago was packaged the same way. unfortunately it had no rust inhibitor or anything else with, well, except the rust all over it.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: AndyF]
#48810
12/13/07 09:58 PM
12/13/07 09:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Gotta remember when they send those blocks to places like Florida and lower East Coast etc, that the humidity kills them when they sit around or go thru temperature changes. Maybe Charlie from World can assist.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
#48811
12/13/07 11:08 PM
12/13/07 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,925
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Dick H.
Tin Man
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Tin Man
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,925
ROLL TIDE ROLL
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Quote:
Mr. Barton has a "BAD REP" has he?
Not saying that necessarily. His records on the track and "rep" with customers are what they are.
Just saying that his idea of a "streetable" motor probably varies widely from what the average crate hemi buyer will expect. As long as things like the cam and ring package are picked by someone else, it might possibly work OK.  
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#48812
12/13/07 11:24 PM
12/13/07 11:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,340
Pennsylvania
proshiftcharger
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,340
Pennsylvania
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Ray Barton is building the 528 crate motors. He is at 150 back ordered. As you know they do still have the hyd. cams because they are built to MP specs. The motors now have better internals (cams, lifters, pistons, etc) which was needed to say the least. The 528 crate motors by Barton are now using World Blocks. From what I was told Gary is or will be building the 472's and Rousch is or will be building the 426's. Zippy can you confirm? I dont know if the 426's & 472's will be using World Blocks or not. Bartons dyno HP on the 528 crate makes about 15-20 hp more than MP advertised for the crate. If you want more HP you can switch from the hyd. cam and go with one of Bartons cam combos and get close to 800hp. As Im sure youre aware once you start changing/upgrading parts you dont have a crate motor anymore and you're increasing build cost by the hundreds or thousands. hope this helped, Doug 
Debt does not discriminate...everybody owes somebody $$
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: proshiftcharger]
#48813
12/14/07 10:58 AM
12/14/07 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
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Quote:
Zippy can you confirm?
I can neither confirm nor deny that at this time 
Let's at least wait until the northern facility is approved for production, and whatever the business relationship between them and MP is set.
I mean, you never know, things might not work out for some reason, and then we would have went to all that trouble spreading rumors for nothing!
Thanks for the comments on the packaging, MP has got to change both of those things right away. The heads should have been changed at least a month ago!
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#48814
12/14/07 12:21 PM
12/14/07 12:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
CRE2004
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
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Quote:
Quote:
Zippy can you confirm?
I can neither confirm nor deny that at this time
Let's at least wait until the northern facility is approved for production, and whatever the business relationship between them and MP is set.
I bet that involves jumping through a bunch of hoops 
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: dannysbee]
#48816
12/14/07 03:36 PM
12/14/07 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
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There's hoops to jump through for everyone, it's not a one way street. At times the vendor makes the OEM do all kinds of work... It goes both ways.
BTW, if anyone's interested, 528 crate motors are beginning to ship again, from Barton, today. The part number has superceded up to the AE level to reflect the new build facility. They have the new block, the new AL heads, they produce noticeably more HP than advertised (and I am not going to say how much more), and MP feels they are the best 528 engine they've ever sold.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#48819
12/17/07 09:12 AM
12/17/07 09:12 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Looking into the situation today.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: 64Post]
#48822
08/06/08 10:45 AM
08/06/08 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
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Was just scrounging around through old posts and thought I'd resurrect this one for a little update. Backorders on 528s are almost totally cleaned up. A couple years ago there were 150+, to give you an idea at the huge amount of work involved. At some point in the near future, MP wants anybody who orders one to get it in a week or two, tops. No more running out of blocks/heads/valvetrain and having to wait for parts....everything is on the shelf now. That goes for both parts to feed crate programs and loose parts. I've heard some good reports of the Barton 528s also. Probably the funniest one was from the guy who said his car could do a wheelie in the driveway The packaging on iron HEMI heads was FINALLY fixed several weeks ago, thx to Troy and Todd for helping document the problem. They did not get the foam insert that I would have liked, but they did get a very thick/heavy duty double wall box instead of that wimpy thin/single wall deal. It should be interesting to see how the packaging engineers' decision holds up, but the box looks 100% better now.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#48825
08/07/08 11:45 AM
08/07/08 11:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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Here is a little proof for you all. This is stamped on the pad next to the distributor.
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: Troy]
#48826
08/07/08 12:37 PM
08/07/08 12:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Here is a little proof for you all. This is stamped on the pad next to the distributor.
Thanks,now I can return the favor to Ray Barton for Bad mouthing me to Barry Donnelly.I'll stamp all my junk engines like that and add a few more thousands to the cost.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: bwdst6]
#48829
08/07/08 01:45 PM
08/07/08 01:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks,now I can return the favor to Ray Barton for Bad mouthing me to Barry Donnelly.I'll stamp all my junk engines like that and add a few more thousands to the cost.
Well, you could talk to MP and see if they would let you start/provide the 540, 572, 588, 605 and or 638 versions. It could happen!
Nah,Michael,I'll stick to my real job in the heavy construction industry.You guys and Ray won't have to worry about me. Besides I couldn't compete with real engine builders.Thanks for the suggestion,but I'am planning on retiring soon.I make my real money in the constuction industry,that's how I can afford to play and have the shop.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: B G Racing]
#48830
08/07/08 01:59 PM
08/07/08 01:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks,now I can return the favor to Ray Barton for Bad mouthing me to Barry Donnelly.I'll stamp all my junk engines like that and add a few more thousands to the cost.
Well, you could talk to MP and see if they would let you start/provide the 540, 572, 588, 605 and or 638 versions. It could happen!
Nah,Michael,I'll stick to my real job in the heavy construction industry.You guys and Ray won't have to worry about me. Besides I couldn't compete with real engine builders.Thanks for the suggestion,but I'am planning on retiring soon.I make my real money in the constuction industry,that's how I can afford to play and have the shop.
Ya but if you start building for mopar you can give all us moparts members a nice discount. I thinking of a 540 all aluminum crate motor for 6000 grand or you can sell it to me for 5000 grand and i will let you stamp your name on my fenders and hood.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#48834
08/07/08 03:51 PM
08/07/08 03:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,521
Richmond Va, KeislerTKO 60...
VanishPt
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,521
Richmond Va, KeislerTKO 60...
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Maybe someone in the parts business could call barton ( 610 693 5700) and ask. They would not tell me when i asked about 2 months ago.
Last edited by VanishPt; 08/07/08 03:52 PM.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: ZIPPY]
#48837
08/08/08 10:25 AM
08/08/08 10:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
I don't know who he is, sounds like another good guess, but nope!
The old saying "the best place to hide something is in plain sight" comes to mind about now
I'll take a shot at a guess:The Donnelly clan will be the engine builders if not then they will be advising Barton.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: RodStRace]
#48840
08/09/08 12:03 AM
08/09/08 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,845
S.E. Michigan
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MP billet stands, hard chromed shafts. The spec rocker is the MP stock replacement style but there have actually been several types used over time depending on availability, because of the push to clean up backorders. Lesson learned: substituting is better than waiting for parts to show up for 6 months. If you wait for parts, you're in the hole before you know it so don't wait.
IIRC Barton told me something like 80 or 100HP is a cam swap away and I don't doubt that, but the 528 is supposed to be a conservatively built, streetable MP crate motor...Not a race motor though many of them run in the 10s (never mind the guy who can do a wheelie in the driveway)....so the cam swap would be up to the end user....you couldn't (for example) order a crate motor with your choice of parts in it....
Since getting blocks/heads/rockers/rocker stands is no problem anymore, and since real race engine builders are now working with MP there's a pretty decent possibility for more radical crate motor combinations in the future, but they are strictly in the idea stage.
I've heard some important folks talking about a high compression, maybe roller lifter, maybe larger CI deal at some point in the future but AFAIK no testing of a combination like that has happened, and no program of that type exists right now.
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Re: Barton building the crate Hemis?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#48843
10/02/09 07:21 PM
10/02/09 07:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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No offense to any one on this post, I made that comment regarding the nude girl stuff that came up, my post somehow escaped the mods deletion.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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