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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: atoetly]
#482203
09/28/09 08:31 AM
09/28/09 08:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I have the A&A billet steel drum in mine. I went with the steel drum b/c it's a street car and wanted max durability.  CHIP
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: DJVCuda]
#482205
09/28/09 08:44 AM
09/28/09 08:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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I bought a billet steel drum from CRT when the factory drum couldn't keep the snap ring in place after the T brake install.
John is a great guy to deal with 
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: Crizila]
#482207
09/28/09 09:50 AM
09/28/09 09:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 764
NW Pa.
KD800X
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 764
NW Pa.
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Quote:
Quote:
this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum
use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.
 After smoking my original 3 disc clutch pack, CRT set me up with a steel drum and 4 disc pack. Works good.
Our A&A Aluminum drum is over 2 years old and the fluid never looked like that.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: MOPARCHAS]
#482208
09/28/09 10:40 AM
09/28/09 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
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Quote:
what do you guys use for a front drum in a 727
racing only and why and from who
Since your application is race only, you get to pick between aluminum and steel to get rid of the cast factory drum.
I have been running an aluminum drum from TCS with a smooth (no slots) red band for about 4 years and 600+ passes. I am very happy. I don't overheat the fluid or slip the clutches so my fluid holds up well and I change fluid and filter every 40 passes. The drum still looked good (minor wear) on the band surface during last winter's refresh. Another nice feature of the TCS drum is the replacable bronze sleeve that the rings ride on. More durable than aluminum and replaceable.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: KD800X]
#482209
09/28/09 12:30 PM
09/28/09 12:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum
use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.
After smoking my original 3 disc clutch pack, CRT set me up with a steel drum and 4 disc pack. Works good.
Our A&A Aluminum drum is over 2 years old and the fluid never looked like that.
2 years - but how many runs?
I am not knocking the aluminum drum, to say the least, that was the A&A drum and it needs to be cut every so often due to wear, and if you do any type of street driving the billet steel is the way to go.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: DJVCuda]
#482211
09/28/09 12:34 PM
09/28/09 12:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 550
Ma
Voluster
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 550
Ma
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Quote:
use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.
I did the same thing after running a stock one for 14 years
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: WILD BILL]
#482212
09/28/09 01:13 PM
09/28/09 01:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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billet steel here. because it rules. from crt. because john rules.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: atoetly]
#482213
09/28/09 01:19 PM
09/28/09 01:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
I use a billet steel unit for safety reasons. I've had a billet aluminum one but they are a pain in the butt in terms of oil contamination and they don't last. And don't believe the hype that an aluminum unit will make you go faster either.
Mine did not wear much but it is a giant pain using a steel billet one now if there was a performace difference it did not show up same times this spring?? No other changes!
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: DJVCuda]
#482214
09/28/09 01:19 PM
09/28/09 01:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 764
NW Pa.
KD800X
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 764
NW Pa.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum
use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.
After smoking my original 3 disc clutch pack, CRT set me up with a steel drum and 4 disc pack. Works good.
Our A&A Aluminum drum is over 2 years old and the fluid never looked like that.
2 years - but how many runs?
I am not knocking the aluminum drum, to say the least, that was the A&A drum and it needs to be cut every so often due to wear, and if you do any type of street driving the billet steel is the way to go.
We have about 90 passes on the drum. We changed the fluid once last year and started with fresh fluid this year. We were running Mobil 1 fluid and switched to Castrol Synthetic this year, and so far our fluid dosn't look like that... YET!  We are also running the A&A red bands in lue of the Kevlar. The Kevlar bands are too agressive and wear the drum quicker.
All I'm saying is we are happy with our aluminum drum so far. The steel drum is a good choice also, no doubt.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: JohnRR]
#482218
09/28/09 05:13 PM
09/28/09 05:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
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Quote:
both the TCS and the A+A have their pros and cons , I've had both ,Ii like the TCS because you can fit 5 thick clutches in it because the snap ring groove is higher BUT they put the vent valve in the WRONG place and kolene steels won't fit because the grooves for the steels are a little narrow , I have an EARLY TCS drum.
The A+A has the proper vent placement but is a copyu of the stock 4 clutch drum , the plus is it will spin to a higher RPM over the TCS drum and not distort , the drum distorts and it's junk.
But the A+A is a couple hundred more than the TCS .
That great info..I am going to buy one here soon.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: VernMotor]
#482219
09/28/09 06:40 PM
09/28/09 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,136
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,136
Melbourne , Australia
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If you buy anyone's Aluminium Drum, make sure you run a Red lined band. The Kevlar bands are too aggressive and will wear the drum out quickly.
AL....
Alan Jones
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: JohnRR]
#482221
09/28/09 11:46 PM
09/28/09 11:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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Quote:
both the TCS and the A+A have their pros and cons , I've had both ,Ii like the TCS because you can fit 5 thick clutches in it because the snap ring groove is higher BUT they put the vent valve in the WRONG place and kolene steels won't fit because the grooves for the steels are a little narrow , I have an EARLY TCS drum.
my TCS drum is just over a year old & my trans man managed to fit 6 kolenes into this drum. do you think they may have upgraded from your earlier version?
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: rebel]
#482222
09/29/09 09:17 AM
09/29/09 09:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,979
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,979
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
both the TCS and the A+A have their pros and cons , I've had both ,Ii like the TCS because you can fit 5 thick clutches in it because the snap ring groove is higher BUT they put the vent valve in the WRONG place and kolene steels won't fit because the grooves for the steels are a little narrow , I have an EARLY TCS drum.
my TCS drum is just over a year old & my trans man managed to fit 6 kolenes into this drum. do you think they may have upgraded from your earlier version?
I talked to someone in the know and he had addressed the issues that my drum has with them and it seemed to be hit and miss as to whether it came in correct or not still. In their defense the drum I have is probably 6 or 7 years old , it was one of their first and I got it for half of what they sell for now. I'll move the vent and you can grind the edges of the kolene steels to make them fit properly. But if I were starting from scratch I'd pony up for the A+A .
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: DJVCuda]
#482223
09/29/09 09:35 AM
09/29/09 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum
use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.
I think this picture and testimony is an example of not knowing
what you're looking at. OEM transmissions produce the same residue,
in complete passenger car applications.
I have/had an A&A aluminum drum in my 727 with way more than 50
passes on it and it has never looked like that.
Both drums have their place but, both solve the safety issues of
the OEM forged powder drum.
I hate for one guy's opinion to mislead potential customers for
the aluminum drum. It's not usually necessary but, is not the
cause for the grey sludge pictured.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#482224
09/29/09 07:38 PM
09/29/09 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 657
B.C.
mk_
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 657
B.C.
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The A&A aluminum drum in my car has hundreds of passes on it and looks like it's hardly been used when I take it apart to check things over in the off season. I change the trans fluid every 40 runs with Dextron 3 and don't ever have the sludge shown in the picture above. I run a smooth red band from A&A as well and run a Tranzact valve body with a clean 2-3 shift which may help prevent premature drum wear.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: mk_]
#482225
09/30/09 06:52 AM
09/30/09 06:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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and what do you think the silver material on those fingers is? swiss cheese? it wear from the aluminum drum - plain and simple... i'm not bashing the aluminum drum... if you read my post it states that for a a car that drives on the street you will have to deal with this - that is a fact and that will not change. this was not form an old tranny - it was a seasonal rebuild and the drum had wear at the band location. here is that drum before it was cut. 
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: DJVCuda]
#482226
09/30/09 08:39 AM
09/30/09 08:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,979
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,979
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
and what do you think the silver material on those fingers is? swiss cheese?
it wear from the aluminum drum - plain and simple... i'm not bashing the aluminum drum... if you read my post it states that for a a car that drives on the street you will have to deal with this - that is a fact and that will not change.
this was not form an old tranny - it was a seasonal rebuild and the drum had wear at the band location.
here is that drum before it was cut.
Dave , what is this person using for a band ?
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: DJVCuda]
#482230
09/30/09 09:42 AM
09/30/09 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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I can't make out any aluminum in you first picture. You said 50 runs on it. That's a lot of crap in there for 50 runs. I wouldn't put aluminum drum in a car that saw street duty either. It looks like BAD Swiss cheese.  edit: I'd expect the wear pictured on the drum after 600 passes.
Last edited by S/ST 3040; 09/30/09 09:47 AM.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: LA360]
#482231
09/30/09 09:48 AM
09/30/09 09:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,710
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
If you buy anyone's Aluminium Drum, make sure you run a Red lined band. The Kevlar bands are too aggressive and will wear the drum out quickly.
AL....
thats what i use.Red band
I got my drum from JPT, he makes them in house,on his own CNC equipment. i think he said he was the first one to do that.
Have had mine over 5 years and still looks great.. 
Last edited by B3422W5; 09/30/09 09:49 AM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#482232
09/30/09 10:10 AM
09/30/09 10:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
I can't make out any aluminum in you first picture.
You said 50 runs on it. That's a lot of crap in there for 50 runs.
I wouldn't put aluminum drum in a car that saw street duty either.
It looks like BAD Swiss cheese.
edit: I'd expect the wear pictured on the drum after 600 passes.
the picture of the drum was in fact 6-800 passes...
my last posts has that info in there..
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: Hunted Duck]
#482238
10/02/09 09:55 AM
10/02/09 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
Does anybody make the billet steel drum for a 904?
TCS
I personally wouldn't bother unless, I was 100% sure I needed the
extra clamping of the bigger piston.
I'm using an OEM front drum on my first 904, due to lack of funds.
The next one will be aluminum. 904 drums don't have the front
drum explosions the 727s do, as their mass and diameter are
much less.
727 high gear drum is 3480.5 grams and 7.496" in diameter
904 high gear drum is 2378 grams and 5.876" in diameter
This example shows the 904 drum is 2.43 lbs. lighter and 1.620" less in diameter.
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Re: 727 front drum
[Re: MOPARCHAS]
#482241
10/03/09 04:26 AM
10/03/09 04:26 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I just rebuilt my 727 with the TCS steel drum. The Kolene steels fit with no issues. The steel drums are heavy when fitted with 5 or 6 clutches. I used the 5 Thick Alto red eagle clutches, kolene steels and 0.062" snap ring. These drums require the rear clutch drum to be beveled to clear the new front clutch drum. I poped for the TCS billit aluminum rear clutch drum that is already machined for clearance. The clearances between the drums was still fairly close when there was no load on the rear clutch diaphram spring. My old diaphram spring was a bit flatter than new, so the clearances were a bit slopy. I spent the $5 for a new diaphram spring and it helped with the front to rear drum clearances. I also used the A&A super sprag, bolted in with all six bolts, although the sprag came with 5 long bolts and one short bolt that did not fit? Because none of the hardware stores carries 1/4"fine thread grade 8 allen head cap screws, I ordered up some (actually a box of 100.) So if anyone needs one of these bolts (I think 1-1/2" long) just ask, I have extras 
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