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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results are in AGAIN
[Re: TonyS451]
#469974
09/19/09 10:26 AM
09/19/09 10:26 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Tony, how about scanning the dyno information and posting it so we can see some actual Data. the proof of how the engine runs is in the details of the recorded data, not just the HP and torque numbers.
what kind of dyno was it on?
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: TonyS451]
#469975
09/19/09 10:28 AM
09/19/09 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,484
SoCal
Brian Hafliger
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SoCal
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What does the chamber measure? They are usually 85-86 OOTB, and with cnc work, they will be larger. So did you have them milled any?
By your specs, assuming an 86cc chamber you have 10:1. Coupled with the large cam duration, you have no cylinder pressure. That will no doubt take some power away from that engine.
If you read my first post, and check out the build I did in the link, you'll see we used a cam with only 236@ .050 to achieve 535HP and 620TQ!
Brian Hafliger
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#469976
09/19/09 10:48 AM
09/19/09 10:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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OP
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Chicago, IL
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Quote:
What does the chamber measure? They are usually 85-86 OOTB, and with cnc work, they will be larger. So did you have them milled any?
By your specs, assuming an 86cc chamber you have 10:1. Coupled with the large cam duration, you have no cylinder pressure. That will no doubt take some power away from that engine.
If you read my first post, and check out the build I did in the link, you'll see we used a cam with only 236@ .050 to achieve 535HP and 620TQ!
I did see your link and combos like your are exactly why I feel my numbers are down. The heads were resursaced by Modern to bring the chambers down to 82cc. My engine builder cc'd a couple just to confirm, and they were 81 and 82cc.
Dram - I don't have a scanner but I'll try to type in the hp and tq numbers by rpm. The only other relevant numbers I have on my printouts are man vac by rpm. Would it help to see those too? I think he said it was a DTS dyno.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#469978
09/19/09 11:04 AM
09/19/09 11:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
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Tony, Thanks for posting the results. I've never seen much diference between the M1 and the SD, I just prefer the SD because it'll fit under the hood of a b/e even with a small spacer and the SD has runners that are easier to work (The M1's are kinda tall and narrow for the same sqare area.) A lot of the flow improvement to the SD is in the 'as cast' roof so It needs a little spacer to "fix" the turn radius. The rest of the changes are really just opening up the runners for more flow area which a stroker likes.  Your results are skewed by a the too big headers, a torque curve is also a MOMENTUM curve which has a big effect on how a motor pulls through a load. Your motor for its compression and port area was at a big disadvantage below 4000 because your motor had no "sweet spot" to gain RPM bacuase the exhaust had no velocity (lazy). that effects overlap scavenging and when you have smallish runners to begin with....well, it all ties together. When you put the 2" on it it'll feel a lot stronger from about 3600 up and it will broaden the torque curve AND make more power. If you keep the SD I can shoot you some porting ideas but I think I'ds go with the indy dual plane with some pretty easy to do lower plenum work, that will be a better all around intake for the street and won't cost you any appreciable power up top. If it did, I wouldn't run one in max wedge form.
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: TonyS451]
#469979
09/19/09 11:09 AM
09/19/09 11:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
Quote:
What does the chamber measure? They are usually 85-86 OOTB, and with cnc work, they will be larger. So did you have them milled any?
By your specs, assuming an 86cc chamber you have 10:1. Coupled with the large cam duration, you have no cylinder pressure. That will no doubt take some power away from that engine.
If you read my first post, and check out the build I did in the link, you'll see we used a cam with only 236@ .050 to achieve 535HP and 620TQ!
I did see your link and combos like your are exactly why I feel my numbers are down. The heads were resursaced by Modern to bring the chambers down to 82cc. My engine builder cc'd a couple just to confirm, and they were 81 and 82cc.
Dram - I don't have a scanner but I'll try to type in the hp and tq numbers by rpm. The only other relevant numbers I have on my printouts are man vac by rpm. Would it help to see those too? I think he said it was a DTS dyno.
Tony,
Maybe you can take a good picture of the dyno sheet then upload the picture here. That's what I used to do in the old days. 
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: TonyS451]
#469980
09/19/09 11:21 AM
09/19/09 11:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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Here are the vac / TQ / HP numbers from the last pull the M1 intake and cam advance:
3800 - .6 544 396
3900 - .6 545 405
4000 - .6 548 417
4100 - .6 553 433
4200 - .7 554 443
4300 - .8 551 452
4400 - .8 549 460
4500 - .9 550 471
4600 - 1 555 487
4700 - 1 561 503
4800 - 1.1 564 515
4900 - 1.2 565 527
5000 - 1.2 564 537
5100 - 1.3 560 544
5200 - 1.3 553 549
5300 - 1.3 545 551
5400 - 1.3 538 553
5500 - 1.3 534 559
5600 - 1.4 528 563
5700 - 1.5 518 562
5800 - 1.5 509 563
5900 - 1.5 499 560
6000 - 1.5 486 555
6100 - 1.6 474 550
6200 - 1.6 462 545
6300 - 1.6 452 541
6400 - 1.7 444 540
6500 - 1.7 434 537
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: TonyS451]
#469981
09/19/09 11:24 AM
09/19/09 11:24 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Dram - I don't have a scanner but I'll try to type in the hp and tq numbers by rpm. The only other relevant numbers I have on my printouts are man vac by rpm. Would it help to see those too? I think he said it was a DTS dyno.
don't bother typing in those numbers without the rest of the data.
go back to your dyno guy and ask for a full printout of ALL data as recorded for your best pull. the HP and torque numbers are meaningless without them.
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
#469982
09/19/09 11:29 AM
09/19/09 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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Dram - What other numbers/info are you looking for? Just so I know when I ask him. Also, what is your opinion of how much running the 2 1/4 headers hurt this combo?
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: TonyS451]
#469985
09/19/09 01:59 PM
09/19/09 01:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
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Tony
I would be a little concerned if the Dyno operator is not actively engaging you in conversation regarding A/F ratios, fuel consumption and BSFC, among other things after each pull, if he is not reviewing and printing out complete data files between each run or at the end of the session for you to take home, and if printing, scanning and emailing records is technically challanging.
None of this makes the HP and TQ data any more or less accurate, or any higher or lower, but overall seems odd to me.
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: BSB67]
#469986
09/19/09 04:35 PM
09/19/09 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Tony
I would be a little concerned if the Dyno operator is not actively engaging you in conversation regarding A/F ratios, fuel consumption and BSFC, among other things after each pull, if he is not reviewing and printing out complete data files between each run or at the end of the session for you to take home, and if printing, scanning and emailing records is technically challanging.
None of this makes the HP and TQ data any more or less accurate, or any higher or lower, but overall seems odd to me.
It wasn't trying to imply he finds the computer technically challenging. He's actually very bright, just never leaves the shop long enough to get with the times. Literally, he never leaves the shop and he is always working, and I just don't think he has gotten around to picking up the computer. I know its not normal, even my 5 year old can navigate a bit on the computer and internet.
However, I agree it would have been nice to have more data than what I got. I'm going to see if I can get a printout of all the data. If I get it, I will try to scan or at least post some of the pertinent info.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Dyno day for my 505 - Results and NEED HELP!
[Re: Defbob]
#469988
09/20/09 08:31 AM
09/20/09 08:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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That is a cool/quick car Defbob, and a rag top to boot! Nice  DusterDave - thanks for the link, that was very informative.
2 kids and a dog
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