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finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
#464358
09/09/09 09:04 PM
09/09/09 09:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
juicedcuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
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I am having some serious trouble getting my engine started for the first time. I think it has to do with me setting the distributor, etc. TDC is with both intake valve and exhaust valve closed, correct? I was using the TDC mark on my ATI damper, is this correct? I went through the tech archives and tried the method listed on there and the damper is no where close to the TDC mark on the damper, this method states to watch #1 intake valve open and as it closes will be TDC. This is my first time doing this and I am having some trouble.
Also when I place the distributor in, how do I know the rotor is pointing in the right direction for #1?
And my last question is, is the degree the cam was installed correspond with the numbers on teh damper?
Sorry for the long post, just trying to learn how to do this correctly and understand what I am doing.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: juicedcuda]
#464359
09/09/09 09:14 PM
09/09/09 09:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Pull #1 spark plug, and have a friend bump the engine over while you have your finger over the spark plug hole...bump it slow. Once you start feeling compression coming up....stop....put a breaker bar or socket on the front turn the engine clockwise line up the TDC pointer to zero on the damper. The turn it another back 10-15 deg counter clock wise stop. Do this with out the dist in the hole, now drop in the dist and phase it how ever you want it, or put # 1 where ever you want it. Just use a long straight screw driver and turn the intermediate shaft back out of it climbing out of the cam gear turn it how ever you please. Dont turn the engine though. Install the dist without the rotor cap. Notice and mark where the button tip is pointing. Simply install the cap and turn the dist to line up the cap, and button pointer tang. make this number one. wire it up and fire it off.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: juicedcuda]
#464360
09/09/09 09:15 PM
09/09/09 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Take out number one spark plug and hold fa inger over rthe hole and slowly turn the engine over by bumping the relat terminals till you feel compression coming out. STOP and very slowly proceed to TDC. You are now at TDC compression, install the intermiete shaft with the slot parralell with engine center line. Intall the distributor with the rotor pointing forward and take note of which terminal in the cap it is pointing to and install number one plug wire in that terminal and follow the firing order around the cap.  No the cam degree has nothing to do with the damper marking..
Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks.
But: Don't fix it, if it Works!
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: juicedcuda]
#464361
09/09/09 09:18 PM
09/09/09 09:18 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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ON #1 cylinder your right get both intake and exhaust closed and turn your damper on 35 degrees, pull off your distributor cap and turn your distributor so your rotor points to #1 plug wire, tighten down your distributor and fire it up. hopefully your got your distributor gear drive in the right spot so you can advance or retard your distributor properly. this should get you close so you can start it up.
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: juicedcuda]
#464362
09/09/09 09:19 PM
09/09/09 09:19 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
I am having some serious trouble getting my engine started for the first time. I think it has to do with me setting the distributor, etc. TDC is with both intake valve and exhaust valve closed, correct? I was using the TDC mark on my ATI damper, is this correct? I went through the tech archives and tried the method listed on there and the damper is no where close to the TDC mark on the damper, this method states to watch #1 intake valve open and as it closes will be TDC. This is my first time doing this and I am having some trouble.
Also when I place the distributor in, how do I know the rotor is pointing in the right direction for #1?
And my last question is, is the degree the cam was installed correspond with the numbers on teh damper?
Sorry for the long post, just trying to learn how to do this correctly and understand what I am doing.
There are actually two TDC's. One where the piston is up on compression stroke and the other at the end of the cycle(exhaust). When setting up your distributor, compression is the one you have to be concerned with. Both valves should be closed. That is provided you don't have something screwed up to hang the valves open. Do you happen to be using a crank that has two keyways?? If so and you have it on the wrong key, your index will be way off. Did you verify TDC with the mark on the damper and cover/pointer?? This is best accomplished with the head off, but you can still get it close with a piston stop.
The #1 position on the cap is immaterial. You can start in any spot provided you follow the firing order in the proper direction (CW=small block and CCW =BB), and the piston is at TDC compression for #1.
MB
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: juicedcuda]
#464364
09/10/09 12:10 AM
09/10/09 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I am having some serious trouble getting my engine started for the first time. I think it has to do with me setting the distributor, etc. TDC is with both intake valve and exhaust valve closed, correct? I was using the TDC mark on my ATI damper, is this correct? I went through the tech archives and tried the method listed on there and the damper is no where close to the TDC mark on the damper, this method states to watch #1 intake valve open and as it closes will be TDC. This is my first time doing this and I am having some trouble.
Also when I place the distributor in, how do I know the rotor is pointing in the right direction for #1?
And my last question is, is the degree the cam was installed correspond with the numbers on teh damper?
Yes the #1 does coralate to the crank.... but its
when the valve is at peak.... your cam card may give
you at .020 and .050 ....With the timing is yours
locked out or not... if not... find TDC and turn the
crank back about 16* and line up the rotor so the leading
edge of the rotor is pointing at #1 terminal, put
the cap back on and fire it.... if its locked, set
the crank to 35* and do the same thing... then adjust
with the timing light.... If its farting via the carb
pull the dist and turn the crank 360* to TDC
and do like above
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: beepbeepdon]
#464369
09/11/09 03:11 PM
09/11/09 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
juicedcuda...It seems as tho you and I are in the same stage of learning. I have been a little nervous to post things as I am such a newbie to building a race car. I am learning some of the most basic things about engines,transmission,fuel,etc. I want to say to all of the folks that have answered juicedcuda post as well as all the other questions that may not be worth your time to answer,but you have...... THANK YOU !!! It's you more experienced people that help guys like us gain more knowledge and confidence. Again THANKS !!! 
For you guys that are NEWBIES..... ask questions, we
ALL were newbies at one time(not only here but new
to the car game).... remember there is never a stupid/dumb
question. Some of us have been in the automotive game
all of our lives
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#464371
09/11/09 03:50 PM
09/11/09 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
juicedcuda...It seems as tho you and I are in the same stage of learning. I have been a little nervous to post things as I am such a newbie to building a race car. I am learning some of the most basic things about engines,transmission,fuel,etc. I want to say to all of the folks that have answered juicedcuda post as well as all the other questions that may not be worth your time to answer,but you have...... THANK YOU !!! It's you more experienced people that help guys like us gain more knowledge and confidence. Again THANKS !!!
For you guys that are NEWBIES..... ask questions, we
ALL were newbies at one time(not only here but new
to the car game).... remember there is never a stupid/dumb
question. Some of us have been in the automotive game
all of our lives
EDIT
Also some (me) assume certain things... which I
shouldnt, but I assume the person has done the basic
checks.... but maybe some dont know the basics.. so
I'm sorry I dont ask things like have you checked
timing. When I fire up a engine for the first time
I check a couple of items right away.... does it
have oil pressure.... then I set the timing... then
set the carb
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#464372
09/11/09 04:19 PM
09/11/09 04:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Is this a big block or small block? It might be a timing issue causing the poor idle quality. If its a big block, have some one start it up keeping it running, try to keep it at a idle or near idle rpm, and keep it steady. Turn the distributor Clock wise very slow. The Engine should respond. If it responds good it should smooth out and the idle should pickup, run cleaner etc even though your not giving it any additional throttle/fuel. This is a step in the right direction. Keep turn the dist slowly until it doesnt respond any. This may only mean a little turn, a 1/4 could be 15-20 deg which is substantial amount. At this point you need to set the timing correctly, or have someone help you do so. !!!DO NOT ADJUST THE CARB ANY UNTIL THE TIMING IS CORRECT!!! I have seen lots of guys have "Carb Issues" that they cannot fix. But once timing is set correctly, the "Carb Problems" disappear. Tell us some detail about your engine, size, cam specs, intake compression, carb part number, ignition, dist type..everything. We are here to help.. There is no dumb questions, only not so smart assumptions. 
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#464373
09/11/09 04:46 PM
09/11/09 04:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
juicedcuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
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It is true, my car wouldn't even be close to what it is now without everyone on moparts. I am 22 and just trying to learn how to do things the right way. I can always count on good advice on here. PS - Mr. P Body, the distributor was 180 out. As soon as I flipped it, it started to fire. Thanks. My setup is: 500" stroker ~11:1 compression -custom grind solid roller comp cam 714 lift -1.7 T&D rockers -INDY fully ported -1's, flowed 380 -1150 QuickFuel dominator carb -INDY 4150 intake w/ HVH 4150-4500 adapter -MSD probillet distributor -MSD 6A ignition -Firecore 50 wires -TTI step headers I think that's it.
Last edited by juicedcuda; 09/11/09 04:57 PM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: radar]
#464375
09/11/09 08:30 PM
09/11/09 08:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
juicedcuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
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Quote:
holy crap!
That's a lot of motor for someone who can't stab in a distributor!
Good luck and if you can't get her running, it's probably junk- I can help you haul it off for scrap...
Seriously though, I learned tons here- good people.
radar
It's a big step from my old 383 with a 150 shot. This one will get some spray soon enough. Go big or go home.
Last edited by juicedcuda; 09/12/09 02:31 PM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: juicedcuda]
#464376
09/11/09 09:13 PM
09/11/09 09:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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I suggest you lock the dist out now for starters. Dont let people say it wont start, or cause a bunch of other problems starting it locked out...its total BS. 560CID + 16:1 compression, and stock Mini starter from a 91 Dodge Dakota. That engine wont need a bunch of timing either. Set it about 34-35 deg's and forget about it. 
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#464377
09/11/09 09:26 PM
09/11/09 09:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
juicedcuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
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I have already locked it. I had it locked at 34* on my old motor. 28* on spray.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: finding TDC and setting distributor on startup?
[Re: juicedcuda]
#464378
09/12/09 12:31 PM
09/12/09 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
radar
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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A nice step up! I wanna be just like you when I grow up  congrats on the big combo I hope it takes a while for the scaryness to wear off! rdr
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