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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: PHJ426]
#46425
10/21/07 10:22 PM
10/21/07 10:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
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Quote:
Is it also a good idea to add in a set of Torque Boxes to stiffen up the unibody?
Where are these located exactly? Heard of them and any pictures of them or installations would be helpful
Yes. And subframe connectors are an excellent upgrade too.
I can't run subframe connectors in my autocross class. But then again neither can my competitors.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: PHJ426]
#46427
10/21/07 10:42 PM
10/21/07 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
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Quote:
AutoXcuda - What class are you running in that doesnt allow subframe connectors?
Do more advanced classes allow them?
I had an idea about eliminating the need for the torque box and just use the rear leaf relocation under the frame rail kit? I know it notches out the rear frame and adds a box under there to mount the leaf spring what do you guys think?
E-Street Prepared does not allow subframe connectors.
But Street Mod does allow those. And that class allows tubular k-members, shock tower braces (don't know how many points), after market brakes... check rules for details.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: autoxcuda]
#46428
10/22/07 02:03 PM
10/22/07 02:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Here is something to check out Mr Angy's Charger and a few other Mopars are in the members section, click on the picture of the mambers cars for specs: http://www.lateral-g.net/Another question is there a site that lets you plug in tire sizes and spits out height width etc in inches?
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: 6o4o]
#46429
10/22/07 04:01 PM
10/22/07 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
Tony - Are those street tires or racing tires? I never found a good street tire for 15" with 255, 275, 295 or even wider!? If I compair the Radial T/A junk I got now it's a joke compaired to the modern tire my friend rides on his 18" on his 72 RR! This summer he beat most guys with 2x stronger cars (he got a 100% stock 340 and 3.23) on the 1/8mile because he got an uncomparaible grip with those modern tires! With 99% of the 15" street tires out there you just have a very bad grip.
Well, this is the line starts getting blurred. There are tires out there that are d.o.t. approved tires that are marketed and sold as race tires. This means they will meet load, seat, and temperature requirements outlined for d.o.t. approval, but have radically different treadwear and traction ratings. Also, since they have d.o.t. approval but are designed for racing, they are sold as racing tires to avoid the liability issues of someone putting light load rating racing tires under his SUV and killing themselves or others.
Since Switzerland has such stringent automotive requirements, I'd imagine you are in a situation where you must have d.o.t. approval on your tires or they are not good for use.
Since most 15" tires are for the restoration market, it is no suprise to me that most widely available 15" tires are more of a "cosmetic" performance tire than a true performance tire. Restoration builders/owners want decent performance with decent mileage with decent weather handling capability. Someone who wants great grip probably will have limited weather driving and could care less about treadwear.
IMO, there only a few benefits of 17-18" tires. One is the short sidewall takes drivers to a level of tire firmness they would not normally choose. As an example, look at the T-bar sizes XV offers that many will buy as part of a package, but they would never have considered putting under their car as a component of a rebuild. There has been too much press over the years decrying large t-bars as kidney killers that most will just avoid them. The other reasons are that the simple availability of tread patterns and wear ratings allow more choice to suit a driver's method of driving. Really now, there is not a whole lot of diversity in radial tire construction, so the biggest differences is the aggresive, none squirming tread designs and soft rubber choices. Apply that same tread design and compound to a 15" tire, and you have a comparable contact patch between the two sizes.
For grins, here are some suppliers to check out. My bet is most, if not all of these, are vendors a large majority of people never knew existed.
http://www.hoosiertire.com/
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/street.php?item=SportsmanSR
http://www.americanraceronline.com/
http://www.towelcityracingtires.com/
http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Cobra/
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: autoxcuda]
#46430
10/22/07 04:17 PM
10/22/07 04:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
The Strange shock sure look like the QA1 shock bodies and parts. I'm not 100% sure, but they sure look like QA1 shocks.
As do the Be Cool adjustables. For the price range, Koni non adjustables are comparable to all these adjustable versions. There also are Afco adjustables that are easily available. Summit also lists the MP oval track racing shock as available for $68 each. These are designed for the higher wheel rates and duty cycle that comes with throwing a car into corners.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: PHJ426]
#46431
10/22/07 04:23 PM
10/22/07 04:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
Is it also a good idea to add in a set of Torque Boxes to stiffen up the unibody?
This is more than a good idea. I would say it is mandatory for any torsion bar sizing over 1" for the simple fact that once you start inputting these kind of suspension loads, the unibody starts flexing. Once you turn the body structure into a component of the suspension and it starts flexing, your ability to tune and respond goes out the window. XV does have an awesome video about the benefits of uni-body bracing. Scroll down to the chassis video.http://www.xvmotorsports.com/news/index.cfm
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: PHJ426]
#46432
10/22/07 04:47 PM
10/22/07 04:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Here is something to check out Mr Angy's Charger and a few other Mopars are in the members section, click on the picture of the mambers cars for specs:
http://www.lateral-g.net/
What a great website. I especially like the 1971 lowered Road Runner. It says it was lowered 3" from stock height. Is that even possible with a stock K-member and control arms? Won't the suspension just be resting on the rubber stops?
- Jim
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: TC@HP2]
#46433
10/22/07 07:04 PM
10/22/07 07:04 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Chassis Stiffening Video: VIDEO We did full torsion tests on the cars to develop our stiffening components. Quote:
This is more than a good idea. I would say it is mandatory for any torsion bar sizing over 1" for the simple fact that once you start inputting these kind of suspension loads, the unibody starts flexing. Once you turn the body structure into a component of the suspension and it starts flexing, your ability to tune and respond goes out the window. XV does have an awesome video about the benefits of uni-body bracing. Scroll down to the chassis video.http://www.xvmotorsports.com/news/index.cfm
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#46435
10/22/07 10:48 PM
10/22/07 10:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
I especially like the 1971 lowered Road Runner. It says it was lowered 3" from stock height. Is that even possible with a stock K-member and control arms? Won't the suspension just be resting on the rubber stops?
- Jim
Depends on how you define stock. If you use the stock method of setting ride height via the blade and ball joint difference, then you can get 2" worth of drop at the K frame just by getting the lower control arms to sit parallel to the ground. This still allows a few inches of wheel travel, so it is possible to go even further. However, measuring this same adjustment at the rocker panel or wheel lip opening could easily be construed as a 4-6 inch drop depending on point of reference and factoring in changes to wheel diameter.
BTW, this is the same car 6o4o referred to in his post at the top of page 2. Perhaps he could shed some light on how the drop was measured.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: TC@HP2]
#46436
10/23/07 03:35 PM
10/23/07 03:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Depends on how you define stock. If you use the stock method of setting ride height via the blade and ball joint difference, then you can get 2" worth of drop at the K frame just by getting the lower control arms to sit parallel to the ground. This still allows a few inches of wheel travel, so it is possible to go even further. However, measuring this same adjustment at the rocker panel or wheel lip opening could easily be construed as a 4-6 inch drop depending on point of reference and factoring in changes to wheel diameter.
BTW, this is the same car 6o4o referred to in his post at the top of page 2. Perhaps he could shed some light on how the drop was measured.
I'll need to measure my car's ride height again. I had it lowered a little bit too far and the control arm was against the stops. I didn't think I had it lowered very much, although I didn't perform a precise measurement.
DQHemi: So when will XV offer an independent rear? 
- Jim
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#46437
10/23/07 06:02 PM
10/23/07 06:02 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Unregistered
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Quote:
DQHemi: So when will XV offer an independent rear?
- Jim
No plans to do that. Other than wow factor we don't see any real world value going there and bigger issues trying to get it to launch. Would be alot more money as well.
Three link works very well and has a number of benefits.
If we were to go independent out back, it would likely be a transaxle.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
#46438
10/24/07 01:30 PM
10/24/07 01:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 529
Marilla, New York
RalleyA12
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 529
Marilla, New York
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DQ Hemi, Quote:
Maybe we'll let the cat out of the bag if we sell the bars by themselves. I'll get some real good pics of the bars, they are nicer than any others I've seen out there.
It's funny how everyone always forgets about the rear of the car. Our leaf springs have a much lighter rate than any of the production pieces.
On the subject of the rear leafs being much lighter than stock, How does the level 1 rear suspension work at the drag strip ? I really like the idea of a good handling car but would hate to not be able to put my horsepower to the ground at the strip.
Last edited by RalleyA12; 10/24/07 01:31 PM.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#46439
10/24/07 04:33 PM
10/24/07 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
I'll need to measure my car's ride height again. - Jim
Do you know how the stock measurement is figured? It has nothing to do with rocker panel or wheel opening height. It is measure at the bottom of the torsion bar pivot socket at the K frame (spot A) and them at the bottom of the lower ball joint (spot B). You subtract B from A. To have a stock ride height, the results of this measurement should be 1.125 inch difference, meaning the torsion bar socket sits 1 1/8" higher than the lower ball joint.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: TC@HP2]
#46440
10/24/07 05:54 PM
10/24/07 05:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Do you know how the stock measurement is figured? It has nothing to do with rocker panel or wheel opening height. It is measure at the bottom of the torsion bar pivot socket at the K frame (spot A) and them at the bottom of the lower ball joint (spot B). You subtract B from A. To have a stock ride height, the results of this measurement should be 1.125 inch difference, meaning the torsion bar socket sits 1 1/8" higher than the lower ball joint.
I saw that procedure in the FSM but never actually used it. Pure laziness on my part. (Also a lack of level ground to use) I now have a garage bay I can borrow, so I should be able to get an accurate reading there.
- Jim
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: RalleyA12]
#46441
10/24/07 05:54 PM
10/24/07 05:54 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Unregistered
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Quote:
On the subject of the rear leafs being much lighter than stock, How does the level 1 rear suspension work at the drag strip ? I really like the idea of a good handling car but would hate to not be able to put my horsepower to the ground at the strip.
We haven't done alot of dragstrip testing.
But the car still launches, look at the Mopar Action article.
Having said that we're doing another article on our 5.7 HEMI Carb setup and part of it will be done at the dragstrip on a car with our Level I suspension installed. That is coming up quite soon.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: 6o4o]
#46444
11/18/07 06:22 PM
11/18/07 06:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,273
Bern, Switzerland
6o4o
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,273
Bern, Switzerland
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TonyC - yeah, the tires need to be approved to use them on the street over here! So there are not many options for 15" street tires that will last 1-2 seasons, work on rain and are approved! For this I find the 17"'s much better.
I also would maybe like to step up to the Viper braket kit, no way that fits under 15"...
Most guys drive those Radial T/A's, I find them the most terrible tire that exists in the meaning of traction.^
I had here a discussion with 2 guys, one drives races with his Charger. He said, that a 15" setup will handle better than a 17" setup on our old mopars.
He said that the b-body front suspension was made to have soft 15" tires with small sidewall stiffness.
When the tires start to deform on a hard turn the camber starts to get negativ and this helps.
When using 17" that are not supposed to deform on a turn this negativ camber makes it handle worst and that a 17" wheel setup probably can't go as fast into a turn than a 15" setup?!? I never heard of this before?
And also the other story I ALWAYS hear, that you have more traction with a 15" tire than with a 17" tire because it sits wider (ballon) on the street.
By the way, why are the leafsprings of the XV1 so soft? Even if the rear swaybar is huge, with those big Tbars it will probably understeer a lot? I calculated my setup back then with the 1.22" Tbars that I need about 200lbs/inch on the leafsprings if I don't want a strong understeer? You got any more info on that?
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