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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: Jimi_Vignogna]
#463495
09/09/09 08:37 AM
09/09/09 08:37 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
for a lot of people, .080 wall pushrods would be just fine.
dram you build engines all the time i see you post about them when a new build is done, my question is do you install .080 wall pushrods in any thing you build? i won't use anything less than .120 even on a stock engine. and this is not to blast you im just wondering your opinion.
oh and by the way i will blast indy every chance i get after my hemi cylinder head fiasco with kenny and russ.i will not stop untill i at least get an apology on the roughly $8000.00 loss i took. those two are the most incapeable s.o.b's on the planet ! they screw up all the time and refuse to be accountable. someone like yourself that uses there product and sells alot of it should speak up about it to others and to them. maybe they will start to listen and get there minds straight.
Jim,
i use plenty of .083 wall pushrods, especially in flat tappet combo's. i can't think of any roller combo where i'd use something that light though. just for the record, i seldom if ever post about combo's i'm working on or have finished any more. i don't think anybody really cares what we're building, or for whom we're building it.
i'm not going to hop aboard the Indy bashing train. over the years i've made suggestions not only to them, but to other manufacturers as well. beyond that, there's little i can do to effect any change in the way they run their businesses. Vic Edelbrock isn't going to start using better hardware on their heads simply because i don't like the cheap stamped 7 degree locks and retainers, nor will Brandon at 440source, simply because i, or anybody else doesn't like it. i'm sure a lot of their decisions are based on cost to manufactuer. to be competitive in any market isn't easy, especially now. adding expense to a product isn't what the majority of consumers wants. look, Edelbrock makes a pretty darn good product overall, but even as good as they are, plenty of people will go buy the cheaper knock-offs instead, even though those have their own set of problems and people know about them. you see where this is going, right?
unfortunately, we have here a do it yourselfer that possibly didn't have the foresight or experience to know that the "cut to fit" .080 wall pushrod kit supplied to him would not handle the pressure load he was about to place upon them. i don't see where blaming Indy for making the pushrod kits is the answer. like i said before, the builder has to assume some risk and responsibility for the parts he uses in any build, especially if he's buying direct from the manufacturer.
when i order custom pistons, or a custom camshaft etc. etc., i can't just tell them to send me "whatever will work". it doesn't work that way. we tell the manufacturer what we want and they supply it. when we get it, we inspect it to make sure it meets our needs. if it doesn't, we either send it back or modify it so it will.
BILLYJAY seems like a nice enough guy and i hate to see anybody have the type of problems he's having, but that's part of the risk you take when you want to buy direct and do it yourself. i don't think for a second that he tried to "cheap out". i just think he simply didn't know any better. if he did, he would have told Indy to keep their pushrod kit and ordered some from another vendor. in any case, i hope the damage isn't too severe and all ends well for him.
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: BILLYJAY]
#463497
09/09/09 09:54 AM
09/09/09 09:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
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It's times like these that make me glad I am a civilian/non mod again  I wish you the best of luck getting the issue resolved.
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: B G Racing]
#463499
09/09/09 10:14 AM
09/09/09 10:14 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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Quote:
Our engine programs are centered exclusively with the use of Indy Cylinder Head products and related parts.We have been a WD since 1999.Our success is based on Indy blocks and heads.We custom build each and every engine to the needs of our customers with select parts compatable with the power levels desired.We rely on Indy for their products but we are responsible to our end users and make the necessary adjustments and corrections during the build.The misconception that some regard us as a "club" is a misrepresentation of BGR.We have and are available to help anyone who contacts us.We however,reserve the right to choose who we do work for.We generally work for and provide parts for other shops and hardcore racers that are known to us.That we are not a shop open to the walkin public gives us the advantage of doing specific quality work for specific quality clients.It also lets us control our shop time so that we can all enjoy the sport.The fact that we are out there racing with and helping many of you only goes to lend credence that we are not a bunch of BSers but are true genuine people that care about helping others.Many of you have visited our shop, many of you have raced with us,many of you understand what we are about,and know that we are here to help.We are not here to solicit business.And as for Indy,we have great respect for the owners and staff and are thankfull for the products that they provide.We enjoy a courtous and professional business relationship that will only end when BGR ceases to exist. 
What's wrong with this picture??????? must be related. 
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: rowin4]
#463500
09/09/09 11:05 AM
09/09/09 11:05 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
#463501
09/09/09 11:11 AM
09/09/09 11:11 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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did the name of this thread change, or am i imagining things?
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: quick77rt ]
#463502
09/09/09 11:27 AM
09/09/09 11:27 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,561
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,561
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
There bag of pushrods went in the dumpster, its too easy to call Smith Bros.
I think that is the OP's point. Why do they put together a kit that the only way to correct it (and most of us know that 99% of all aftermarket stuff needs some kind of correction)is to throw half of it out and pay someone else more $$ for the same parts that will work.
Now if the OP replaced the springs that came with the heads with some kind of 900 lb open then obviously it's not Indy's fault but from what I'm reading here from others is these pushrods won't even support the head as shipped. As far as I'm concerned if that is true it is negligence on Indy's part at the very least leaning more towards fraud.
Kevin
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
#463503
09/09/09 11:31 AM
09/09/09 11:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I'm no pro. I don't see DRAM taking any side except stating potential ignorance... And sayign any manufacturer has to make sure all the parts sold will stand up to the upper limits of the potential is very demonstrative of that ignorance. The reason someone spends witha builder is to have someone who can be reasponsible and trustworthy enough to get the results you want for the money spent. Whether that's $100 or $10K. If you cook out and burn a steak at home, it's your meat, your methods, and your flame. Dine out and you can get your money's worth and make it the cook's fault for a few bucks more because maybe, just maybe, the cook knows more and is more attentive to it.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: Hemiroid]
#463506
09/09/09 12:53 PM
09/09/09 12:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
I love all of the deflection and semantics. Let's be honest people, everyone of you defending Indy knows those push rods and rockers are trash in a race motor.
Sure, they'll live with a .509 purple cam, but no one is buying these heads to do that. If you as a manufacturer are providing push rods and rockers with your aluminum race head that you know won't live in a motor with any kind of race spring then you should have the decency to let your customers know.
I, as a consumer that's informed know not to use those parts, but not everyone knows this. You should look upon your customers as patrons and supporters of your business, not as potential marks for a scam.
Your mileage may vary.
No deflection or semantics on my part,just hard facts as related to Indy and BGR.I'am not defending anyone,I don't need to.Everyone at Indy are big boys and can speak for themselves and those that have issues and opinions can freely express them as well.That's what makes the USA such a great place to live.That I use Indy products is my choise and that our racers use Indy products is their chiose.That I had a bad steak at the LaMont Restraunt in Mt Washinton overlooking the three rivers in Pittsburgh isn't going to hurt their business anytime soon.I waited two weeks for a reservation.Next time I'am getting prime rib.People have the choise weather to deal with Indy or not,and obviously many still choose to do so as they do with Barry Grant and scores of other manufactures that we all hear complanits about. Where's the deflection or semantics in my statements?  
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: Hemiroid]
#463508
09/09/09 01:53 PM
09/09/09 01:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Damn you Bob!!   It wasn't directed at you, you old fart. Did you see me quote you? Plus, you should be out in the shop cracking the whip, not on Moparts  
I was really talking about those trying to blame Billy for Indys crappy push rods. We all know they're crappy, Billy just missed the memo. I don't blame him for being mad.
 I just had to respond to all those "big words"I have no problem with anyone complaining or sharing their problems,generally it helps keep everyone informed.We found problems with all sorts of pushrods.Cups breaking,tubes splitting and flexing.We have learned that building pushrod is an exacting art.We cut them close to desired length then finish them on the lathe to exact measurment.We check the cup pin for fit and ream the inside of the tube if necessary. We slightly champher the end of the tube inside diameter.We have a aluminum pushrod press with radiused end holders and tube holders for various lengths and diameters as well as a aluminum top plate for cup pushrods and radius top plate for ball&ball pudrods.The trick is to get a nice press fit and seat the ends squarely in the tube.We then inspect for straightness and fit. 
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: B G Racing]
#463510
09/09/09 02:55 PM
09/09/09 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,209
Fredericktown, PA 15333
maundmotorworks
Stealth poster
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Stealth poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,209
Fredericktown, PA 15333
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Quote:
Quote:
Damn you Bob!! It wasn't directed at you, you old fart. Did you see me quote you? Plus, you should be out in the shop cracking the whip, not on Moparts
I was really talking about those trying to blame Billy for Indys crappy push rods. We all know they're crappy, Billy just missed the memo. I don't blame him for being mad.
I just had to respond to all those "big words"I have no problem with anyone complaining or sharing their problems,generally it helps keep everyone informed.We found problems with all sorts of pushrods.Cups breaking,tubes splitting and flexing.We have learned that building pushrod is an exacting art.We cut them close to desired length then finish them on the lathe to exact measurment.We check the cup pin for fit and ream the inside of the tube if necessary. We slightly champher the end of the tube inside diameter.We have a aluminum pushrod press with radiused end holders and tube holders for various lengths and diameters as well as a aluminum top plate for cup pushrods and radius top plate for ball&ball pudrods.The trick is to get a nice press fit and seat the ends squarely in the tube.We then inspect for straightness and fit.
This is true and the only right way to assemble these pushrods. Bob has cut and assembled thousands of these pushrods over the years and I can honestly say I've only ever had one bad one. Bob cuts each pushrod tube in a lathe to ensure proper clearances and fitment. Some guys out there use saws and cutoff wheels for this task and it's no wonder theirs screw up. For those here unfamiliar with BG, you need to get familiar real quick. He is the only engine guy I trust besides myself because he has forgotten more than most engine guys ever knew, not to mention he's been at it for over 40 years. Listen to your elders here, guys...
Maund Motorworks--supplier of high performance Mopar engines--specializing in B, RB, and Hemi. www.maundmotorworks.com
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: maundmotorworks]
#463511
09/09/09 03:04 PM
09/09/09 03:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Damn you Bob!! It wasn't directed at you, you old fart. Did you see me quote you? Plus, you should be out in the shop cracking the whip, not on Moparts
I was really talking about those trying to blame Billy for Indys crappy push rods. We all know they're crappy, Billy just missed the memo. I don't blame him for being mad.
I just had to respond to all those "big words"I have no problem with anyone complaining or sharing their problems,generally it helps keep everyone informed.We found problems with all sorts of pushrods.Cups breaking,tubes splitting and flexing.We have learned that building pushrod is an exacting art.We cut them close to desired length then finish them on the lathe to exact measurment.We check the cup pin for fit and ream the inside of the tube if necessary. We slightly champher the end of the tube inside diameter.We have a aluminum pushrod press with radiused end holders and tube holders for various lengths and diameters as well as a aluminum top plate for cup pushrods and radius top plate for ball&ball pudrods.The trick is to get a nice press fit and seat the ends squarely in the tube.We then inspect for straightness and fit.
This is true and the only right way to assemble these pushrods. Bob has cut and assembled thousands of these pushrods over the years and I can honestly say I've only ever had one bad one. Bob cuts each pushrod tube in a lathe to ensure proper clearances and fitment. Some guys out there use saws and cutoff wheels for this task and it's no wonder theirs screw up. For those here unfamiliar with BG, you need to get familiar real quick. He is the only engine guy I trust besides myself because he has forgotten more than most engine guys ever knew, not to mention he's been at it for over 40 years. Listen to your elders here, guys...
Gee Matt,save your breath,my daughter Lynne is already married. However she may be persuaded to step out on her hubby  If not Thelma and Loiuse like to get out every now and then.
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: B G Racing]
#463513
09/09/09 03:33 PM
09/09/09 03:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,209
Fredericktown, PA 15333
maundmotorworks
Stealth poster
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Stealth poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,209
Fredericktown, PA 15333
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Damn you Bob!! It wasn't directed at you, you old fart. Did you see me quote you? Plus, you should be out in the shop cracking the whip, not on Moparts
I was really talking about those trying to blame Billy for Indys crappy push rods. We all know they're crappy, Billy just missed the memo. I don't blame him for being mad.
I just had to respond to all those "big words"I have no problem with anyone complaining or sharing their problems,generally it helps keep everyone informed.We found problems with all sorts of pushrods.Cups breaking,tubes splitting and flexing.We have learned that building pushrod is an exacting art.We cut them close to desired length then finish them on the lathe to exact measurment.We check the cup pin for fit and ream the inside of the tube if necessary. We slightly champher the end of the tube inside diameter.We have a aluminum pushrod press with radiused end holders and tube holders for various lengths and diameters as well as a aluminum top plate for cup pushrods and radius top plate for ball&ball pudrods.The trick is to get a nice press fit and seat the ends squarely in the tube.We then inspect for straightness and fit.
This is true and the only right way to assemble these pushrods. Bob has cut and assembled thousands of these pushrods over the years and I can honestly say I've only ever had one bad one. Bob cuts each pushrod tube in a lathe to ensure proper clearances and fitment. Some guys out there use saws and cutoff wheels for this task and it's no wonder theirs screw up. For those here unfamiliar with BG, you need to get familiar real quick. He is the only engine guy I trust besides myself because he has forgotten more than most engine guys ever knew, not to mention he's been at it for over 40 years. Listen to your elders here, guys...
Gee Matt,save your breath,my daughter Lynne is already married. However she may be persuaded to step out on her hubby If not Thelma and Loiuse like to get out every now and then.
LOL!!! Bob, thanks for the thought, but if I took the dogs, HemiFred would be both jealous and lonely...
Maund Motorworks--supplier of high performance Mopar engines--specializing in B, RB, and Hemi. www.maundmotorworks.com
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Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: B G Racing]
#463514
09/09/09 03:56 PM
09/09/09 03:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Well, I had to comment on the Indy thing. I, like many, have had occasion to deal with the fine folks from Indy. And also have seen people, and I'm not saying this is the case, be able to break a ball bearing with a marshmellow. And that goes for me too. This sport is for people that like to tinker, or we wouldn't be doing it. It's about putting stuff together and seeing the results of their labor. I admit that these days I pay people to assemble my stuff, because, I can afford to do that now. But in the past, I did that myself. And I agree the people at Indy are A-holes when called for advise or customer service. So, why do people keep using them????? Koffel is as nice a guy as they come. I'm not saying he is perfect, but he will talk with you and try to come up with solutions. And the truth is, B1's are just a better head, unless you want to run the NRC stuff. I guess what I am saying is, people in the racing business have put up with this crap for 50 years and longer. And we as racers run to it like flys to a flame. It's true Indy shouldn't sell a head rated to 900HP with a pushrod rated for 500HP. But those of us that have been doing this stuff long enough realize we better ask the question 5 times or reap the consequenses. And yeah Indy is full-o-sht. So, talk with a distributor, or use someone elses stuff. I also want to say I don't like that the racing business is this way, but we all accept it and keep doing it. Sorry about your issue with the pushrods. 
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