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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: BobR]
#442595
08/20/09 10:04 AM
08/20/09 10:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Have owned both, nothing wrong with running a aluminum blocks on the street, yes some of the old KB water block, due to there design, and sleeve construction would typically find water in the ol etc.
Those days are over with.
It really a matter of preference. Yes, for a fact the aluminum block gives up some power over the same iron brother. Some top engine builders say this approaches 50+hp. Some say 25-30hp. Its easy to understand just by looking at the lash growth between iron vs aluminum. Aluminum blocks lash grows near 100% more than iron. For example, my last iron block aluminum head engine, lash would grow .005-.007 from cold to hot. Keeping everything else the same, same heads, same rocker arms, even the same pushrods, the Indy maxx block grew .012-.014 inch. I would say this would effect ring seal etc.
IMO
Power loss almost offsets, weight gain. The repearability of aluminum makes it a nice choice. If your building a dragster or a 2200 lbs tube chassis car, then the weight diff shouldn't be much as a factor.
Stripping weight off our old Mopars really isnt a problem, just takes a phone call, and for one to open his wallet.
This debate will never end, and we all have diff idea's what works, and which is better and why.
Its really a matter of preference.
But on a side note, you dont hear about to many aftermarket block failures today. Even with the added community of forums like Moparts. These aftermarket blocks are made to handle about anything the average Joe can throw at it.
In other words, which every block you have, even a nice a nice repairable KB block, a catastrophic engine failure suxs big time regardless of block type.
Last edited by Bob_Coomer; 08/20/09 10:05 AM.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: mayhem148]
#442597
08/20/09 11:23 AM
08/20/09 11:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
for the after market blocks what would be a better choice. what holds up better. advantages and disadvantages. can aluminum blocks really be rebuilt after some explosions or catostrophic failure.
advantages iron is 3,000$
and disadvantages aluminum is 6,000$
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: blownzoom440]
#442599
08/20/09 11:46 AM
08/20/09 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,997
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,997
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I did the math on hp loss versus weight loss, and with a loss of 40 hp, it is a wash at 8.80 and 3000 lbs.
The biggest advantage of all is the loss of 100+ lbs up front! This weight removal can really be an advantage, especially if you want to stay anywhere near the stock engine location. Want to buy a slightly used mega block, 4.501 bore?
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: sdaurity]
#442600
08/20/09 11:53 AM
08/20/09 11:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
for the after market blocks what would be a better choice. what holds up better. advantages and disadvantages. can aluminum blocks really be rebuilt after some explosions or catostrophic failure.
advantages iron is 3,000$
and disadvantages aluminum is 6,000$
So thats your only disadvantage?
i am not sure i dont have any experiance with the aluminum blocks. 
how about availabillity?
how about lifter bore sleeving?[any issues?
can barings spinning?block growth?
maintainance with valvetrain?block and head growth with heat?
are there any drawbacks in these areas?
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: blownzoom440]
#442601
08/20/09 12:50 PM
08/20/09 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
for the after market blocks what would be a better choice. what holds up better. advantages and disadvantages. can aluminum blocks really be rebuilt after some explosions or catostrophic failure.
advantages iron is 3,000$
and disadvantages aluminum is 6,000$
So thats your only disadvantage?
i am not sure i dont have any experiance with the aluminum blocks.
how about availabillity?
how about lifter bore sleeving?[any issues?
can barings spinning?block growth?
maintainance with valvetrain?block and head growth with heat?
are there any drawbacks in these areas?
They don't cost $6,000. My KB was $4,850 plus $150 for shipping to SC from CA. So it was $5,000.
I figured at the time a Mega Block was about $2,600 or so plus another grand in corrective machine work to fix the usual Mopar Performance junk, it was only about $1,500 difference. I'll gladly pay an extra 1500 bucks for a block I can repair if I grenade it and not have to start all over with another new block. The World blocks weren't available yet when I built my hemi a few years ago. It was either KB, Indy, or a big pile from MP.
KB has a few months of wait time, but I think it's worth it. Indy has them in stock as far as I know.
My lifters don't get any oil at all (solid roller) and there is no lifter bore sleeve. The only oil they get is drainback from the heads and what gets splashed on them. No trouble here. I sent my lifters back to Isky for a checkup after 2 years of use and they sent them back saying they were in perfect condition and needed nothing.
They can gundrill oil passages if you're going to run hydraulic lifters though.
The block is gonna grow since it's aluminum. My lash changes .012" from cold to hot. Again, no problems.  CHIP
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: blownzoom440]
#442604
08/20/09 04:20 PM
08/20/09 04:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
juicedcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
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So if I was to purchase an aftermarket aluminum block and build a street friendly 500" stroker with up to a 400 shot of spray, what would be my best choice in aluminum blocks? INDY, World, KB?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: juicedcuda]
#442605
08/20/09 04:33 PM
08/20/09 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
So if I was to purchase an aftermarket aluminum block and build a street friendly 500" stroker with up to a 400 shot of spray, what would be my best choice in aluminum blocks? INDY, World, KB?
All 3 are quality blocks, I chose to stay away from Indy b/c they are A-holes. If you do buy an Indy block, get it from a dealer and not from them directly. I'm 100% happy with my KB block. CHIP
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#442606
08/20/09 04:39 PM
08/20/09 04:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
juicedcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
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Is there any huge differences in machining of any of the aluminum blocks?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: juicedcuda]
#442607
08/20/09 05:03 PM
08/20/09 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 627
IN
BIG BEAR
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 627
IN
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Quote:
Is there any huge differences in machining of any of the aluminum blocks?
IMO the biggest difference in machining is the sleeve and how it fits into the block, but that is a manufacturing step so as far as anything else goes I would think it would'nt be to hard. But I would have to think you may lose some of your bore size due to the sleeve in the cylinder wall 
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: BIG BEAR]
#442608
08/20/09 05:30 PM
08/20/09 05:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Kokomo, IN
540dust
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 656
Kokomo, IN
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Don't get me wrong, I would pick Al for sure, but the HP loss is real. When I bought my Al block I used the same rotating assembly, same compression, heads, clearances, everything to do a back to back comparision to the iron half filled block. The weight differece was 90lbs the et loss was 2 tenths, I got to within about 1.5 tenths tightening the lash and leaving with some more heat. That being said, the advantages of durability, repairability, and lightening the front end in my opinion outweigh the HP loss.
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Re: iron versus aluminum
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#442609
08/20/09 09:57 PM
08/20/09 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
for the after market blocks what would be a better choice. what holds up better. advantages and disadvantages. can aluminum blocks really be rebuilt after some explosions or catostrophic failure.
advantages iron is 3,000$
and disadvantages aluminum is 6,000$
So thats your only disadvantage?
i am not sure i dont have any experiance with the aluminum blocks.
how about availabillity?
how about lifter bore sleeving?[any issues?
can barings spinning?block growth?
maintainance with valvetrain?block and head growth with heat?
are there any drawbacks in these areas?
They don't cost $6,000. My KB was $4,850 plus $150 for shipping to SC from CA. So it was $5,000.
I figured at the time a Mega Block was about $2,600 or so plus another grand in corrective machine work to fix the usual Mopar Performance junk, it was only about $1,500 difference. I'll gladly pay an extra 1500 bucks for a block I can repair if I grenade it and not have to start all over with another new block. The World blocks weren't available yet when I built my hemi a few years ago. It was either KB, Indy, or a big pile from MP.
KB has a few months of wait time, but I think it's worth it. Indy has them in stock as far as I know.
My lifters don't get any oil at all (solid roller) and there is no lifter bore sleeve. The only oil they get is drainback from the heads and what gets splashed on them. No trouble here. I sent my lifters back to Isky for a checkup after 2 years of use and they sent them back saying they were in perfect condition and needed nothing.
They can gundrill oil passages if you're going to run hydraulic lifters though.
The block is gonna grow since it's aluminum. My lash changes .012" from cold to hot. Again, no problems. CHIP
the cost of the ali block was takin from the link posted above.
["P5153868
Block, Aluminum, Wedge, Siamese-bore, Finished Bored at 4.50"
$ 5,695.95 "]
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