AVIATION FUEL?
#433493
08/10/09 07:24 AM
08/10/09 07:24 AM
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greenmcode
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Is it safe to run aviation 100 leaded fuel in a 11.75 comp car? Whats the difference with additives to cam 2?
Thanks
1969 A12 R.R. 11.61 117.96 F.A.S.T. STOCK STROKE..
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: greenmcode]
#433494
08/10/09 07:36 AM
08/10/09 07:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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Yes it's safe. I ran 100LL AvGas in a 12.2:1 compression 440 on the street and strip for 3 or 4 years w/ no trouble. Not sure what the differences b/t the AvGas and Cam2 additives are, but I know you'll hear a lot of people say not to run it for various reasons. I can tell you from firsthand experience that it works great and is a cheap substitute to race fuel. CHIP
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#433495
08/10/09 07:44 AM
08/10/09 07:44 AM
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Steve1118
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It's your choice, but we never had any luck with AVGAS instead of race gas. We had a lot of detonation......it just didn't work. In addition, some AVGAS has some alcohol in it which can deteriorate fuel lines, etc.
I'm not saying not to, but be careful. You get what you pay for. I'm not a gasoline expert, but there are some differences between automotive and aircraft demands....there is more to it than just octane.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: Steve1118]
#433496
08/10/09 08:20 AM
08/10/09 08:20 AM
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S/ST 3040
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One of the additives, is to keep it from freezing at high altitudes. I guess, I can see a need for that property. My dad used to run Av-gas in his 371" 1950 Olds and said it made a difference over pump gas. (good stuff, like 1960's Sunoco)
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: Rug_Trucker]
#433500
08/10/09 12:40 PM
08/10/09 12:40 PM
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Moparnut426
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Id rather lower the octane a tiny bit than destroy my engine. We had a guy around here who crop dusted, and had MANY toys, and before we had any VP reps here, he always ran AV gas, then after finding poor sealing valves, and bad compression he did some reserch and found how dry it was, then He talked with some fuel guys and they told him just add a bit of ATF or some sort of 2 stroke oil to give it some lubrisity, it sure didnt affect his ETs any, he has a walley in his office from his 460 powered t bird. His name is Dale Bittner with Dales flying service. He has an abundance of AV gas so he used it. Now he has access to race gas just as easy as his AV gas so he runs VP.
Kasey
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#433502
08/10/09 12:46 PM
08/10/09 12:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Scot........I've had great luck with the stuff...........been using it for a LONG time and used LOTS of it........and have never had any problems.........Maybe it's different in different parts of the country???.......I've even run in it in a 15 to 1 572 that ran high 9's, back to back at the race track, against race gas and saw ZERO 60 foot, ET, or MPH difference........
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: 70dusterjohn]
#433504
08/11/09 02:27 AM
08/11/09 02:27 AM
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Cheatham
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I worked for a fbo a year ago and was qc for 100ll and jet-a i had endless supply of 100ll and gave 100s of gallons to racers who wanted some, 100ll is a slightly lighter specific gravity compared to auto gas,in other words its lighter in weight,it has no additives compared to auto gas it does have stablilizer cuz some planes sit in hangars for a while, it does not cause corrision, if it did it wouldnt be safe for aircraft, it has ALMOST zero water in it, there is no additive to displace water in gasoline,at high altitudes water will freeze in the fuel lines and would block the fuel to the aircraft motor and down it will go,sumping aircraft fuel tanks are a must before flights, an aircrafts engines toughest chore is to get down the runway and up to speed,so its safe to use just re jet slightly for it and add some marvel mystery oil i can go on and on but hope this helps.
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: Cheatham]
#433505
08/11/09 03:10 AM
08/11/09 03:10 AM
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bogusracer
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Quote:
I worked for a fbo a year ago and was qc for 100ll and jet-a i had endless supply of 100ll and gave 100s of gallons to racers who wanted some, 100ll is a slightly lighter specific gravity compared to auto gas,in other words its lighter in weight,it has no additives compared to auto gas it does have stablilizer cuz some planes sit in hangars for a while, it does not cause corrision, if it did it wouldnt be safe for aircraft, it has ALMOST zero water in it, there is no additive to displace water in gasoline,at high altitudes water will freeze in the fuel lines and would block the fuel to the aircraft motor and down it will go,sumping aircraft fuel tanks are a must before flights, an aircrafts engines toughest chore is to get down the runway and up to speed,so its safe to use just re jet slightly for it and add some marvel mystery oil i can go on and on but hope this helps.
How much Marvel Mystery Oil to say 10 gals. of 100 LL Av-Gas?
Or how many ounces per gallon?
Thanks,
Bogusracer
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: bogusracer]
#433506
08/11/09 07:12 AM
08/11/09 07:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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chryco
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I have used 100 Octane AV Gas for years as well . No ill effects from it . If it was so bad why would they use it in aircraft engines !!!!!!!!!????
Gas is fer washin' parts ....Alky`s fer drinkin' ...Nitro`s fer Racin'!
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: super451b]
#433508
08/11/09 09:19 AM
08/11/09 09:19 AM
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greenmcode
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Thanks for the info.. I always run vp or sunoco 110 leaded for around 8 to 9 bucks a gal.. I can get the aviation 100 leaded for 5 bucks a gal..
1969 A12 R.R. 11.61 117.96 F.A.S.T. STOCK STROKE..
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: greenmcode]
#433509
08/11/09 09:23 AM
08/11/09 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
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MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Thanks for the info.. I always run vp or sunoco 110 leaded for around 8 to 9 bucks a gal.. I can get the aviation 100 leaded for 5 bucks a gal..
Thats a big drop in octane to go from 110 to 100, will your engine like it
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#433510
08/11/09 09:53 AM
08/11/09 09:53 AM
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greenmcode
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Its 11.75comp. Just for cruisin around I think it would be ok.. [image] [/image]
1969 A12 R.R. 11.61 117.96 F.A.S.T. STOCK STROKE..
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: greenmcode]
#433511
08/11/09 09:59 AM
08/11/09 09:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
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MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Its 11.75comp. Just for cruisin around I think it would be ok..
[image][/image]
I would have to say you were/are over octaned before. I use to use 114 in my car and dropped to a lower octane and went quicker(faster burn rate)
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: greenmcode]
#433512
08/11/09 10:03 AM
08/11/09 10:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Quote:
Thanks for the info.. I always run vp or sunoco 110 leaded for around 8 to 9 bucks a gal.. I can get the aviation 100 leaded for 5 bucks a gal..
As a pilot and ex airplane owner I haven't heard of 100 avaition, just 100 LL avaition fuel I use to use the 115-145 octane when it was around back in the 1970 and then they drop that due to the large high performance multi engine aircraft being phase out of service here in our country. They (the oil companys)switch to 115-130 for several years and dropped that when they switch to 100LL. I did see valve seat damage when using the 130-145, I haven't really used the 100LL straight for any period of time in a race car so as far as damage 100LL does have, as already said, additives to increase its shelf life. The other thing is the specific gravity (weight per gallon can be compared with non avaition gasoline) is a lot less than most race gas Race gas is designed to be used in all out racing, aviation gas is designed to be ran at a consanst RPM, usually less than 2700 RPM, and design to be ran at the lean condition( 25 to 75 F degrees rich or lean of peak EGTs) to be rated at 100 octane. If you run it richer it won't have the same power as it does when it is ran lean the last thing is most airplane don't travel close to the ground so the fuel is designed to be ran at higher altitudes, 5000 ft MSL or above is normal
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#433513
08/11/09 10:16 AM
08/11/09 10:16 AM
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greenmcode
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I would have to say you were/are over octaned before. I use to use 114 in my car and dropped to a lower octane and went quicker(faster burn rate)
So I should cut the 110 with some 93? How much? Thanks
1969 A12 R.R. 11.61 117.96 F.A.S.T. STOCK STROKE..
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: greenmcode]
#433514
08/11/09 10:28 AM
08/11/09 10:28 AM
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HPMike
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Taken from the VP website..
C12 The best all around racing fuel made. Recommended for CRs below 15:1, satisfying the needs of 75% of today's race engines. One of the winningest fuels in racing history, including Modified Tour, GNN, D.I.R.T., Indy Lights, NHRA, AMA as well as other local and national championships across the U.S. and around the world. Color: Green Motor Octane 108 Specific Gravity: .717 at 60° F
Based on several dyno tests with different fuels (specifically engines similar to yours), I would say that C12 is what would work best. I would be very surprised if anything yielded any power gains. I am not saying that you couldn't experiment with something else, but beware of subtle detonation that will make short work of your motor. Those types of builds are very dtonation sensitive. Bob K has you running a ton of total advance IIRC-which could make it more octane sensitive.
MB
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: Mroctober]
#433518
08/11/09 04:59 PM
08/11/09 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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Quote:
Tried 112 racing fuel and 105 avia fuel, Time is the same as racing gas !!! At 4.90 Gal to 9.00 gal
I've had the same results switching from 110 race fuel to 100LL AvGas, but you can't tell that to some people. CHIP
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#433519
08/11/09 05:07 PM
08/11/09 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
the last thing is most airplane don't travel close to the ground so the fuel is designed to be ran at higher altitudes, 5000 ft MSL or above is normal
So what do they do, take them to 5000 feet under a balloon and then drop them?
I was an aircraft owner for twenty years and seldom flew above 2000' MSL.
Drop them
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: Rug_Trucker]
#433520
08/11/09 05:08 PM
08/11/09 05:08 PM
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62SAVOY
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Quote:
Quote:
1/2 QUART OF TRANNY FLUID TO A TANK FOR LUBRICATION Its a dry fuel, and will score the crap out of the cylinders and eat valve seats,
Kasey
Funny how some people say, "no tranny fluid in the diesel!" "It has no lubricating properties."
If you pour ATF in the gas it will lower the octane.
ATF is basically a high detergent 10 wt oil. Works good for cleaning the injectors on diesel motors. We had problems with our 550 Ford. Ran crappy. I did a scan test on it and showed problem injectors. We bought it used and was sorting thins out on it. Uncle was mechanic for years. Or since the dinosaurs roomed the earth we used to joke. Even working on the new engines that were out. He told me run tank real low and add 1 gallon of ATF than drive for a bit. Boss drove it daily being his daily vehicle. Came into shop a few days later telling me to rescan again. This thing is pulling hard now getting on the freeway. Rescanned and all injectors showed good.
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#433522
08/11/09 10:02 PM
08/11/09 10:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Quote:
Quote:
the last thing is most airplane don't travel close to the ground so the fuel is designed to be ran at higher altitudes, 5000 ft MSL or above is normal
So what do they do, take them to 5000 feet under a balloon and then drop them?
I was an aircraft owner for twenty years and seldom flew above 2000' MSL.
I owned one for 15 yrs and seldom flew below 3000 FT, home airport was 3180 ft at the low end of the runway As you know John most pilot take off with the mixture set at full rich and don't think about leaning the mixture until their at or above 3000+ft MSL or at there cruising altitude. My point on the 100 LL is that it is very seldom ran at or above 2800 RPM and at sea level where you can make max power in a N/A airplane, it is avation fuel, not race gas
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#433525
08/12/09 11:53 PM
08/12/09 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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barracudabob
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I like it. My car has 11-1 compression, with the 100LL, I check the plugs occasionally, there are no signs of detonation, or anything unusual. I also use it in my lawn mower, generator, garden tiller, and snowblower. I just love the smell, especially when blowing snow!
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Re: AVIATION FUEL?
[Re: barracudabob]
#433526
08/12/09 11:56 PM
08/12/09 11:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Cab_Burge
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Quote:
I like it. My car has 11-1 compression, with the 100LL, I check the plugs occasionally, there are no signs of detonation, or anything unusual. I also use it in my lawn mower, generator, garden tiller, and snowblower. I just love the smell,
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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