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Update- 318 combos Please
#422136
07/28/09 07:54 PM
07/28/09 07:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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This question has been asked before but please let me hear some ideas. I have a 71 satellite 4dr, 318/904 w/ 8 1/4 rear with gears probably around 2.76 or so, currently 245/60/15's, power discs with rear drums. Would like to have at least 300 hp if do-able, and as much torque as possible in a daily driver, pump gas car thats fun to drive. Probably looking at magnum heads b/c from what I can tell they are a great bang for the buck, but give me your thoughts and ideas.
Scenario #1. Engine is opened up and bores are in good shape, etc... and engine does not need to be completely rebuilt/machined etc... What would you do. Hone, re-ring, magnum heads, mill heads for compression, if so how much, headers, 4 barrel carb, dual plane intake? All ideas welcome.
Scenario #2. Engine needs to be completely reworked. Which pistons (brand, cast, forged,etc...), heads, intake, etc...
Again any ideas would be greatly appreciated, and cost is an issue so please give me you most economical options.
Thanks
roe
Last edited by roe; 08/26/09 11:53 PM.
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: mark7171]
#422138
07/28/09 08:07 PM
07/28/09 08:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Hughes pistons to get the CR in the 10's w .040" quench. mag heads
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: mark7171]
#422139
07/28/09 08:13 PM
07/28/09 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Get a 318 or 360 magnum runner $5-600 add a performer airgap intake no need to swap cams, either one will get you 300hp and great mpg. No need to open the motor besides pulling the intake to install the new one. 300 hp is so easy thease days. If you went the 360 mag route with an eddy air gap and TTI headsers 350 hp is doable with out even pulling the valve covers.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: HotRodDave]
#422140
07/28/09 08:25 PM
07/28/09 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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How easy is it to find these runner 318 and 360 magnums? I dont see them for sale here, and on the ebay the ones I see cost more than $5-600
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: derekeh]
#422143
07/28/09 08:56 PM
07/28/09 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 396
Iowa
318Bruiser
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 396
Iowa
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Here is a website you can use to find them around where you are. http://www.car-part.com/index.htmThe 318's are more expensive than the 360's in my area for some reason.
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: 318Bruiser]
#422144
07/28/09 09:32 PM
07/28/09 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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Thanks, I'll take a look at them
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: 318Bruiser]
#422145
07/28/09 09:53 PM
07/28/09 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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I've got a '86 roller 318 that I just put in my 5th ave (original engine to the car). I put on some home ported magnum heads with a fresh valve job. honed the cyls with new moly rings (pistons measured .055 in the hole), used the thin Mr. gasket head gaskets. compression should be 9.04:1 (assuming 64cc comb. chambers, didn't get a chance to measure them). I had the broomstick of a roller cam (stock is ~240 adv, ~.373" lift) reground by bullet cams to 259 adv/208 .050/127@.2" and .316" lobe lift (.506" lift with mag rockers) on the factory 112LSA/108 ICL. I'm using used magnum lifters, and hughes 1110 springs with 2.2L chrysler retainers. intake is an LA RPM air gap (I redrilled the heads), carb is a 600 eddie. I should have it fired up this weekend. using a comp XR258HR (similar intake lobe) in compcams camquest is predicting 365-380hp/410 tq, which I think is a little optimistic, switching to an HE252 hydraulic flat tappet it's predicting ~340hp/390 tq, which I think is reasonable, and would be comparable to a stock 5.7 hemi for power.....
I personally think 300HP out of a 318 mag w/a stock cam is a little optimistic unless you have a happy dyno, 310-320 is possible from a stock 360 mag, as it uses essentially the same cam as the 300HP crate motor. the 318 cam as slightly more lift, but significantly less (~12 degrees) duration.
but it's ~$150+ ship both ways (~$30 total) to get the cam reground by bullet.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: patrick]
#422146
07/28/09 09:58 PM
07/28/09 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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flat tappet, I'd still use the mag heads, thin gaskets, if the bores look good, just hone and rering. if not, use KB167's and deck the block to 0 deck. if you use the stock pistons, mill the heads ~.030" or so, should drop the combustion chambers to about 60cc.
springs on the mag, I'd use either gm 3100 springs and retainers, or 2.2 retainers and hughes 1110.
for a cam, I'd use a lunati voodoo 60401 with your car's weight and gearing. with the GM springs, you get about .020" less coil bind clearance, so a comp 260H would be a good cam choice.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: roe]
#422148
07/28/09 10:14 PM
07/28/09 10:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Local u-pull charges $200 for a complete EFI long block. I don't know where your prices are at, but I hope you don't pay too much.
I would do intake, headers and a cam swap. I hear the mag guys are using the GM 3100 valve springs. Whether or not you want to tear into the motor to do bearings/rings is up to you. Cost/time starts going up quick if you do. Heck, if you really need to shave the budget leave the stock cam/springs in there and put that money into the rear end. That 2.76 rear is going to make any backyard build a dog. I would swap to whatever the numerically highest gears are that you can stand. I daily drive my sig car but I live less than two miles from work and it's all city driving so I don't have to worry about highway rpm. With some gears and the stock cam you won't have a ton of hp, probably high 200's close to 300 but should have a lot of torq, I'd guess around 350ft-lbs. That with some gears should light the tires up nicely and give you that kick in the pants you want.
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#422149
07/28/09 11:25 PM
07/28/09 11:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
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Those mopars are torquey , shifting at only 4,800-5,000 rpm. Maybe, 2.76-3.23 is all thats needed with 215/60/15's turning. Stick with velocity and go performer(non-rpm) intake. You can't skip up past 2000rpm with clutch or stall. A RPM would decrease the low end. You need that Performers 1500 rpm push to be ready, sucking air, and strong. Its Pulling with the crank throws, made to rev up from idle-2,200.
What ever you chose don't spend too much...
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: mark7171]
#422150
07/28/09 11:35 PM
07/28/09 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 699
Cooperstown, NY
jrlegacy23
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 699
Cooperstown, NY
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Go to your local dodge dealer and get a 360 magnum shortblock for $1200. Pick up a set of foctory roller lifters for $120. Grab a set of Edelbrock heads for $1400. A few random parts here and there for $800. If I was going to do a small block, thats the route I would take.
[color:"#00FF00"]68 Fastback Barracuda with some stuff[/color]
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: mark7171]
#422151
07/29/09 10:19 AM
07/29/09 10:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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The RPM will not give up any low end tq to a performer, the performer will lose top end power. Also you can get an RPM that will bolt on and the performer requires removeing the heads and redrilling the bolt holes. Even if the performer made more power before 2000 it won't do any good because that motor will stall even a stock converter well past 2000 rpm. I have 2.76 gears in my cuda and with the mild 318 I just sold and the stock converter it would stall at 2200 and it almost never cruised below 2000 even in town.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 318 combos Please......I know, been asked before.
[Re: 318Bruiser]
#422152
08/04/09 08:52 PM
08/04/09 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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I took a look at that website and there are some pretty good deals on there. Thanks for the link.
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: roe]
#422153
08/26/09 11:50 PM
08/26/09 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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Ok, so it looks like I will be picking up a flat tappet 318 at a price that will really help me with my budget build. It has been cleaned, cylinders honed, and cam bearings installed, and crank polished. Also have a set of magnum heads in the works at a price that will help me out as well. So with this in mind what would you do to button it up. Remember my goals are daily driver, street car, fun to drive, that will also be used on long trips when I take them. Looking for as close to 300hp as possible and as much torque as possible.
Intake, Performer or RPM. I have had two suggestions for pistons, some from hughes and the KB 167's. There was a suggestion to get the quench around 40. Anyone want to elaborate on what that means? Just trying to learn
Car is a 71 Satellite Custom, 318/904, 8 1/4 open w/ appr 2.76 gears, 245/60/15's, power disc w/ rear drums, power steering, A/C. Eventually want to go sure grip 2.94 or 3.23 at the max.
Thanks
roe
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: roe]
#422154
08/27/09 09:09 AM
08/27/09 09:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Ok, so it looks like I will be picking up a flat tappet 318 at a price that will really help me with my budget build. It has been cleaned, cylinders honed, and cam bearings installed, and crank polished. Also have a set of magnum heads in the works at a price that will help me out as well. So with this in mind what would you do to button it up. Remember my goals are daily driver, street car, fun to drive, that will also be used on long trips when I take them. Looking for as close to 300hp as possible and as much torque as possible.
Intake, Performer or RPM. I have had two suggestions for pistons, some from hughes and the KB 167's. There was a suggestion to get the quench around 40. Anyone want to elaborate on what that means? Just trying to learn
Car is a 71 Satellite Custom, 318/904, 8 1/4 open w/ appr 2.76 gears, 245/60/15's, power disc w/ rear drums, power steering, A/C. Eventually want to go sure grip 2.94 or 3.23 at the max.
Thanks
roe
here's my combo I just put together:
stock '86 short block (roller cam motor, out of my car, I measured the pistons at .055" in the hole).
honed the cyls, new moly rings, reused pistons
Mr. gasket .028" thick head gasket. this combo works out to exactly 9:1 compression assuming 64cc for the mag heads.
magnum heads that I had a 3 angle VJ done on, opening up the VJ to 1.9" and 1.605" (stock VJ was way undersized for the valves), chrylser 2.2L retainers from the junkyard, hughes 1110 springs, they're installed ~1.63 IH, will accomodate up to .530" lift at that IH. I spent 2 days profiling the guide bosses, opening up the pushrod pinch, grinding off casting flash, radiusing the short side, and hogging out/bowl blending the ports. I also redrilled the heads to LA intake pattern to reuse my....
Eddie air gap RPM
stock magnum roller lifters, pushrods, rockers
eddie 600 carb
roller cam reground by bulletcams.com to their HR259/316 lobe both intake and exhaust. specs with the mag's 1.6 rockers are:
duration:
259/259 adv 208/208 .050 lift 127/127 .2" lift
it's ground on the factory cam's 112 LSA for 33 degrees overlap, installed at 108 ICL, .506" lift with mag rockers.
summit headers, to a custom fabricated mandrel bent Y pipe to the 3" single exhaust I had on the car before (old Y pipe was compression bent 2.5", but rotted out)
I'm still working on carb tuning, I've got a bad off idle lean bog (hooked up a friend's LM1 and it leans out to 20:1 when you stomp on it) except for the bog, this thing pulls as hard as the 360 that had a comp XE262 (46 degrees overlap, intake lobe was 262/218/130 for adv/.050/.2" duration) with a lot better manners at idle, and hopefully once I get the carb tuning sorted out mileage will be significantly better than the 360 (which pulled down 15-16mpg....I'm hoping for 20 with the 318).
personally, if I were you, I'd get a magnum 318, or at least an '85-newer short block (roller cam motor). get the roller cam reground to the same profile I have, clean it, toss new bearings, rings, thin head gaskets in it, put a 4bbl and 600 cfm carb on it and enjoy. I don't think I'd bother with a flat tappet motor ever again.
if you're set on the flat tappet motor, if the bores aren't worn to where you need a bore, I'd just reuse the stock pistons. maybe if you have it tore down, toss the crank and the 4 corner pistons in it and measure how far down in the hole they are with a straightedge and feeler gage. if you want more compression/good quench, have the deck blocked so the pistons are ~.014-.018 in the hole, then use the Mr. gasket thin gaskets, so you can achieve .038-.046 (min-max based on published thickness of the gaskets and depth in the hole) clearance between the piston and the cyl head deck at TDC.
for a cam, I think I stick by my recommendation of the voodoo 60400 or 60401 or a comp 260H depending on what valve springs you choose and how much installed height you can get on the mag heads.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: patrick]
#422156
08/27/09 12:00 PM
08/27/09 12:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,106
Ridgeland Wi
mopars_1
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,106
Ridgeland Wi
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i think you'll be able to get over 300hp pretty easy. my 318 is has a stock bottom end with windage tray, ported 302 heads, small summit cam, headers, rmp intake, holley, shift kit, 2800 tc, and 3.91's and it is a frick BLAST to drive. it's not the best street machine out there but i bet I could hold up well with a stock 340.
1971 Plymouth Duster 340 auto
1937 Plymouth PT50
1969 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 4 speed
2013 Ram laramie 2500 hemi
2008 Harley FLSTSB springer
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: roe]
#422157
08/27/09 01:21 PM
08/27/09 01:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
BDS871Cuda
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
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Quote:
This question has been asked before but please let me hear some ideas. I have a 71 satellite 4dr, 318/904 w/ 8 1/4 rear with gears probably around 2.76 or so, currently 245/60/15's, power discs with rear drums. Would like to have at least 300 hp if do-able, and as much torque as possible in a daily driver, pump gas car thats fun to drive. Probably looking at magnum heads b/c from what I can tell they are a great bang for the buck, but give me your thoughts and ideas.
Scenario #1. Engine is opened up and bores are in good shape, etc... and engine does not need to be completely rebuilt/machined etc... What would you do. Hone, re-ring, magnum heads, mill heads for compression, if so how much, headers, 4 barrel carb, dual plane intake? All ideas welcome.
Scenario #2. Engine needs to be completely reworked. Which pistons (brand, cast, forged,etc...), heads, intake, etc...
Again any ideas would be greatly appreciated, and cost is an issue so please give me you most economical options.
Thanks
roe
Hey Roe,
How about a 360 from a 72-84 car, truck, van ect.
A simple 360 LA with an RPM intake and cam will
make 300 HP easy. You could put on RPM heads and
get over 400 easy with headers and Holley carb.
The 2.76 gears will do just fine if you put a
1800-2200 converter in it. That combo will make
enough TQ starting at 1500 rpm to fry the tires
off.
Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: roe]
#422158
08/27/09 03:22 PM
08/27/09 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,120
MassHole Central
rtman
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,120
MassHole Central
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"...and cost is an issue so please give me you most economical options." Good luck, Roe. The only "weakness" of the 318 is with factory slugs you can't get any compression....you're more or less "stuck" with 8:1 and no quench which hurts power and to rebuild one with good slugs you can build a 360 just as cheap. Go with a quick ramp cam like a Comp XE to trap more cylinder pressure and keep the duration in the 216-224 @ .050 range....you can mill the heads but it doesn't help your quench 'cause it doesn't do anything for the poor piston to deck of the slugs. By the time you port and mill the heads and put in new valves you're going to have ~$700 or more into what are still 318 heads.....the heads to use are the late 80's heart shaped chamber heads if you're going to do a swap.....also if you have the $$$$  you might consider getting a set of closed chamber Edelbrock RPM's for $1100, that way if you go to a 360 or something later you have them to grow into. Saves about 45 pounds too. If money is tight, your best bang for the buck mod on a stock 318 is small dual plane 4bbl, 600 carb, & dual exhaust. With a 340 cam, it should run as well as 90% of the stock 340's did back in the day.
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: rtman]
#422159
08/27/09 03:52 PM
08/27/09 03:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
"...and cost is an issue so please give me you most economical options."
Good luck, Roe. The only "weakness" of the 318 is with factory slugs you can't get any compression....you're more or less "stuck" with 8:1 and no quench which hurts power and to rebuild one with good slugs you can build a 360 just as cheap.
My stock slug 318 with magnum heads and thin head gaskets calculates out to an even 9:1. quench is a non ideal .083", but it makes good power
Quote:
Go with a quick ramp cam like a Comp XE to trap more cylinder pressure and keep the duration in the 216-224 @ .050 range....you can mill the heads but it doesn't help your quench 'cause it doesn't do anything for the poor piston to deck of the slugs.
Quote:
yes, find the fastest rate cam you can with the most .050 and .2" duration for the given seat duration. 216-224@.050 is too much for a stock pistoned 318 with highway gears in a heavy car. look more for 208-212 duration on the intake lobe.
if you're talking about basically buying a flat tappet short block and some magnum heads, I'd seriously look into just picking up a good running long block 318 magnum, swap the intake and valve springs, and get the cam reground. regrinding my roller cam was $150, and you'll pay ~$30 round trip shipping. that's about the price of a GOOD (comp XE or lunati voodoo) flat tappet cam/lifter package, and you'll still have to buy conversion pushrods.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: BDS871Cuda]
#422160
08/27/09 03:55 PM
08/27/09 03:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Hey Roe,
How about a 360 from a 72-84 car, truck, van ect.
A simple 360 LA with an RPM intake and cam will
make 300 HP easy. You could put on RPM heads and
get over 400 easy with headers and Holley carb.
The 2.76 gears will do just fine if you put a
1800-2200 converter in it. That combo will make
enough TQ starting at 1500 rpm to fry the tires
off.
I've had both in my 3900 lb M body. so far I prefer the mag head/roller cam 318 over the flat tappet stock long block 360. the teen makes about the same power with better drivability, and so far better gas mileage, and I just started tuning with a WB 02, it's currently pig rich on power and idle.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: rtman]
#422162
08/27/09 07:30 PM
08/27/09 07:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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Hey thanks a lot to everyone for offering their ideas. It seems that the same member here might also have a 360 to offer me, so I'll wait and see which one I pick up. If it ends up being the 318 then I will be looking at the suggestions that are already posted. If its the 360, then I'll probably (make that definately) be back with more questions.
I dont want to keep hopping back and forth from 318 to 360 with questions, so I will ask a few more when the block and heads are in my hands, and take it from there. And it will likely be a new thread titled with the motor that I pick up.
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: patrick]
#422163
08/27/09 08:01 PM
08/27/09 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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Patrick and rtman, you guys are mentioning quench numbers. How is quench determined? A combination of heads and pistons? What quench numbers are best with a set of magnum heads?
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: roe]
#422164
08/28/09 09:04 AM
08/28/09 09:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Patrick and rtman, you guys are mentioning quench numbers. How is quench determined? A combination of heads and pistons? What quench numbers are best with a set of magnum heads?
quench is the distance from the flat part of the combustion chamber to the top of the piston. for a close chambered head (302, magnum, edelbrock, indy), it's just the amount the piston is below deck plus the head gasket thickness.
for an open chambered head, it's the amount the piston is below deck plus the head gasket thickness plus the depth of the chamber (which as cast or depending on how much milling was done can vary from near zero to .1"+)
Quench helps improve detonation resistance by adding turbulence in the combustion chamber, providing for better fuel distribution. This allows you to run more compression with a lower grade of gas. .035" is about the minimum you want to avoid contact due to thermal expansion or the piston rocking in the bore, much beyond .060" and it has no real effect. some guys here with 360's and a comp XE268 sized cam need to run 93 octane with open chambered heads and no quench and compression in the 9.5-10.0 range, while others with similar cams with magnum heads and tight quench are in the 10.5-10.8 range for compression and can run on 89 octane.
I recommend if you don't have an engine yet, get one with a factory roller cam and start with that. that's an 85-up 318 or 89 and up 360. the roller lifters can be reused, the cam reground, it'll make more power than a similar duration flat tappet cam, and you don't have to worry about the cam going flat due to the lack of zinc in modern oils
Last edited by patrick; 08/28/09 09:08 AM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: patrick]
#422165
08/28/09 09:02 PM
08/28/09 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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Ok, that explanation helps out a lot. It seems that the roller motor is the one that most recommend. And I know that you can run a flat tappet cam in a roller block, what stops you from running an LA block with a roller cam? Can it be done?
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: goldmember]
#422167
08/28/09 09:51 PM
08/28/09 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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I would have preferred a magnum, or a roller block, but right now, the flat tappet will do me fine, I think. Im not looking to build anything special, just a nice runner. A magnum headed LA with a little get up will do me ok, but I do understand what you're saying. Its not going in one ear and out the other. Buck for buck, the magnum would be the best route, but right now, the bucks lead me this direction.
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: roe]
#422169
08/29/09 11:54 AM
08/29/09 11:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Ok, that explanation helps out a lot. It seems that the roller motor is the one that most recommend. And I know that you can run a flat tappet cam in a roller block, what stops you from running an LA block with a roller cam? Can it be done?
you can, if you pony up $500 for retrofit roller lifters.
OEM roller lifters are ~$120/set, used can be reused. roller blocks have taller lifter bores, and 3 bosses in the valley for the lifter retention parts, so they won't retrofit to an older block
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Update- 318 combos Please
[Re: etek]
#422170
08/29/09 01:40 PM
08/29/09 01:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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did a quick look on gainesville's craigslist: http://ocala.craigslist.org/pts/1323125548.htmlthis guy has a magnum motor for sale complete...
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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